Seldom or Never Repeated high quality NH routes

[tradmanclimbz]

It may well be a great potentual line on a great piece of stone but if the FA fucked it all up and put the bolts in the wrong places its a hack job not a high quality route.

[strandman]

What if there's no bolts ?

Long live the plummet   

[tradmanclimbz]

If there are no bolts and the gear is at least reasonable and the rock is good and the possition is good then it is a high quality route. If there are no bolts and the gear sucks, the runout is at the grade with an ankle severing flake 30ft below the mantle to the gear placement it is most definatly NOT a high quality route. It is a horror show that the FA should either fix or give permission for it to be fixed.

[pappy]

If there are no bolts and the gear is at least reasonable and the rock is good and the possition is good then it is a high quality route. If there are no bolts and the gear sucks, the runout is at the grade with an ankle severing flake 30ft below the mantle to the gear placement it is most definatly NOT a high quality route. It is a horror show that the FA should either fix or give permission for it to be fixed.

You can have any opinion you wish about the quality of a climb, but do not give me this 'should' BS. The FA may very well think nothing needs fixing.

[tradmanclimbz]

Well if it climbs the way that I described it and the FA feels that it should not be fixed then the route is a piece of crap that will never be a high quality route simply due to the FA's vanity..

[kenreville]

What if there's no bolts ?

Long live the plummet   

Rock on fuckinn Strand.

[kenreville]

Well if it climbs the way that I described it and the FA feels that it should not be fixed then the route is a piece of crap that will never be a high quality route simply due to the FA's vanity..

Vanity? Are you shitting me?

Your level of comfort is lesser than another climber's level of comfort. That's what it is Trad. At least with me.

[tradmanclimbz]

Read what I wrote. Not slab, 30ft runout  At The Grade over an ankle Severing flake. If I put up a rout like that it will never be a classic or even a high quality route. It will suck and be a waste of good stone.  If  someone requested to add gear to the route and I tell them to pound sand I am simply stroking my own ego. There is a difference between spicy and stupid. If I put up a spicy route that folks aspire to climb and actually get on it and climb it and some one requests a retro I will and have told them that it climbs pretty good the way it is and I will not change it.  that is a whole different scenario.

The way our rules work the FA gets to dictate how a route climbs for at least their lifetime and often much longer.  Personaly  I prefer to put up routs that get climbed and climb well. I actually like to repete my FA's and SHARE the fun times with other climbers.  I do not want to be that cranky old man whos claim to fame is a seldom if never repeted scarefest...

When I need to feed the rat real bad I solo and ice climb and solo ice etc.  I get my fun without imposing my will on every climber who comes after me.

[kenreville]

To that I say there is more than enough rock around the planet to satisfy varying degrees of ballsack.
If you are too intimidated for whatever reason to climb a route, just move along and find another one.

[tradmanclimbz]

why not simply solo or ice climb rather than impose your will on other climbers by putting up total scarefests.

 I just read the Jack Roberts story on the taco. climbing is pleanty dangerous enough without putting up rock climbs with ledge fall and groundfall...

[kenreville]

" it will never be a classic or even a high quality route. It will suck and be a waste of good stone."

Just had to post on this line. What a crock-o-shit.

1. Never be? Who appointed you the judge of what is "classic" or "high quality" and what is not?
2. Waste of stone? Methinks that sweeping unprotected rock is magnificient. To be able to climb it? Means getting the MAXIMUM VALUE from the stone. 

[kenreville]

So Trad- your gig is seeking out new routes. Which is cool. I've got no problem with whatever your style is on whatever available rock you can find.

Do you make a point to log your routes? FA's ?

If so, you're calling the kettle black when it comes to vanity.

[Admin Al]

I've never understood why someone would go to the trouble of cleaning an bolting a route and then NOT logging it. Just me i guess...

[eyebolter]

I agree that the runout routes should be left as monuments.  However, the quality issue does come into play then.  We don't live in the desert.   Routes that don't get climbed are good quality lichen habitat, the exception being the overhanging stuff (most of which is sport) and the slabs that are swept by snowslides, keeping them relatively lichen-free.   The stuff in the 70-90 degree range is lichen headquarters. 

[mopowers]

Bloodsuckers, Tachycardia and Jupiter at Owls Head in Benton are all rarely repeated and ultra classic in my mind. Each is multi-pitch and for the most part sport bolted.

Jupiter probably sees the most traffic because its on the easier side of 5.10.

Tachycardia is hard 5.10 but goes directly up a very intimidating looking face for four pitches. I think the fact that there is no road map for the route is why people avoid it, most are just not willing to explore.

Bloodsuckers has a stopper crux 20' off the ground, 5.12 slab that is difficult to french free. Most probably dont get past that point.
I often wonder if Owls Head would attract more visitors if there was a guide book.

I am guessing the harder routes at The Ocean, Mt. Dicky are rarely repeated with a true redpoint. the routes are difficult, slaby and its relatively a long approach.

Now am i allowed to add seldom repeated routes in Vt?