Author Topic: Fatality on 3/1 in Huntington  (Read 2273 times)

Offline OldEric

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Fatality on 3/1 in Huntington
« on: March 02, 2013, 12:00:52 AM »
I understand there was a fatality in the Ravine today.  A young HMC climber that I knew - wonderful guy.  Very sad..

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Re: Fatality on 3/1 in Huntington
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2013, 04:09:35 AM »
sorry to hear this. RIP

Offline Admin Al

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Re: Fatality on 3/1 in Huntington
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2013, 07:03:31 AM »
So sorry to hear this. RIP
Al Hospers
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Offline Admin Al

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Re: Fatality on 3/1 in Huntington
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2013, 07:08:55 AM »
I can only find an oblique reference in yesterday's avalanche report here:

http://www.mountwashingtonavalanchecenter.org/2013/03/01/weekend-update-sequestration-edition/

The relevant quote:


". We’ve had a busy day on the mountain today. There were human-triggered avalanche incidents in each ravine today. More information will be forthcoming later in the weekend about these incidents.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2013, 07:10:47 AM by Admin Al »
Al Hospers
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Offline OldEric

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Re: Fatality on 3/1 in Huntington
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2013, 08:58:55 AM »
Todaus avalanche report says:

"I mentioned yesterday’s avalanche activity. Unfortunately, one of those was a fatality in Pinnacle Gully. We know the victim was climbing solo in the gully, but other details are being sorted out at this time. The other avalanche in Tuckerman was a very experienced skier who was carried a short ways downslope when another in his party triggered a slide from above him. There was no burial or injury involved in this incident. We are thankful that this slide ended as it did. Details on both incidents will be posted in the days to come."

Offline sneoh

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Re: Fatality on 3/1 in Huntington
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2013, 03:35:15 PM »

"You have to decide to do a flag, where you can broke your vertebrae or a barn door depending of your pro" - the poster formerly known as Champ

Offline David_G48

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Re: Fatality on 3/1 in Huntington
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2013, 04:01:26 PM »
Condolences to both the family and friends of James, so young.....very tragic.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2013, 06:35:25 PM by David_G48 »

Offline lucky luke

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Re: Fatality on 3/1 in Huntington
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2013, 05:12:35 PM »
Quote
On Wednesday, the latest Nor’easter rolled through, dropping 15” across higher terrain and just shy of 12” at Hermit Lake.

Fifteen inches of snow.... it is obvious that two or three days later it will be more dangerous than in the middle of the snowstorm wednesday. What was the avy danger between wednesday and friday? Better not know. With the raising temperature, the transformation of the snow pack will be faster. It is not just powder snow that we will have, but heavy wet snow. In my opinion, the most dangerous type of avalanche. Slow and so strong.

Who is guilty? The mountain, the climber or the authority?

In the old version of american freedom of the hill, first to fifth, they never suggest the good standard way to climb. There is no STATE OF THE ART technique. There is just technique for the mountain, there is just a reader who most learn those technique and adapt his knowledge to the situation in the mountain and there is information from the authority, basic data with all the necessary think for a climber to take his own decision.

technique today is just how to climb fast and hard. Bolt, one point crampon, pick that enter very easily in the ice ...etc

the reader today is just a soldier who follow a set of rules. The climber show off on hard route to attrack the young to follow there path. grade 3, like huntington, is easy that any body can do it. If you training french foot technique instead of germain one...you are a ding.

and the avy forecast danger today tell you when to go on the mountain and when is better to take a hike, without any references, most of the time, to the last three days weather that was so important in the version of mountaineering freedom of the hill before the six edition.

We are all guilty. One to let the new generation do a "fast food" learning without training (it apply to sport too)  and the other to deny that older knowledge and deep understanding doesn't go to improve your level of climbing, but will bring you safely to your home.


Offline sneoh

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Re: Fatality on 3/1 in Huntington
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2013, 07:00:58 PM »
Champ, I would bet that you know next to nothing about the climber, his skill level, his experience and competence, or how the avy got triggered.  Please get off your high horse and stop your know-all preaching.  Some young man is dead, his loved ones are beside themselves with grief.  Show some humanity.

If you were injured in an avy due to some unstated/unknown reason, how would YOU feel if we right away call you a f#@king idiot and are the "climb fast and hard. Bolt, one point crampon, pick that enter very easily in the ice ..." type, etc.


"You have to decide to do a flag, where you can broke your vertebrae or a barn door depending of your pro" - the poster formerly known as Champ

Offline tinker

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Re: Fatality on 3/1 in Huntington
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2013, 07:02:43 PM »
To young, My thoughts go out to his family and friends.  Rest in peace James.

Offline ELM

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Re: Fatality on 3/1 in Huntington
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2013, 07:35:24 PM »
Very sad to hear...RIP James.
Luke/Champ...there is really no place for your usual comments here. Very poor taste.
Ed Matt
" I release my attention: because of you now I am in danger!!! " -Champ

Offline JBrochu

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Re: Fatality on 3/1 in Huntington
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2013, 08:47:44 PM »
To young, My thoughts go out to his family and friends.  Rest in peace James.

+1

Can't really say it any better than this.
Have a quiche, now, or maybe a tort.  You deserve it!
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This is grain, which any fool can eat, but for which the Lord intended a more divine means of consumption.
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Offline lucky luke

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Re: Fatality on 3/1 in Huntington
« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2013, 10:16:21 PM »
Dude!?  What the fuck is your problem?  Somebody's friend and son is dead and all you can muster is some more grandstanding about technique and knowledge of mountaineering!

I am really sad at what happen.

One month ago, I warned you about the danger of avy danger. that it was more dangerous two or three days after a snowstorm.

YOU WITH SOME OTHERs ARE THOSE WHO LAUGHT AT ME, AND HUMILIATE ME. You didn't save any body

If you think at what I wrote one month before, you will understand that I was sad for many other climbers who risked there life because there is a trend to loose some knowledge by trying to be good too fast or because they want to do what need ten or twenty years of training/observation

Just hope that next time you will wrote in this forum that you will think that your friend can be injure by what you said (I never say that it is safe to climb two or three days after a snowstorm in mild weather, I say that it is dangerous). All climbers worht it. If I wrote and tolerate the way you humiliate me...it is for climber like James

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Re: Fatality on 3/1 in Huntington
« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2013, 10:24:40 PM »
RIP James. It’s worthwhile reading through the bulletin for the day slowly;

http://www.mountwashingtonavalanchecenter.org/2013/03/01/avalanche-advisory-for-friday-3-1-2013/

Take home points should be that human triggered was not “likely”, but “possible”.

I have NO idea what James’s understanding of snow stability is but in 10+ years of guiding and skiing in this area and traveling out west I have realized a few things;

1) New England (sometimes Eastern Canadian) ice climbers can have high levels of technical proficiency for ice climbing with little understanding of snow science/avalanche risk management. I.E. you can climb Grade 4+ ice but you don’t know the difference between storm slab and wind slab or P-hard slab and and 4F slab.

2) We think we are safest on the steeper ice, which is true... but what’s below and above must be travelled.

Only on Mount Washington do we see such a high percentage of ice climbers caught or killed in avalanches, and that is directly related to accessibility and variability.

But there is info out there to help make solid (or better) choices.

Disclaimer: I have no idea what James understanding of avy hazard was... all I know is deaths/incidents is UP.... probably because of more traffic in general... there is tons of untouched knowledge out there... equalizing a 2 screw anchor does not equal assessing snow stability... challenge yourself to learn about what you don’t know if you want to spend time in avy terrain... accept you might still fuck up... but invest in some training and practice, practice, practice...

In my courses I make it clear that there is no such thing as a 24 course that will make you safer.... you need to spend time in the terrain and practice to make “better” decisions... but a modern course will show you where your knowledge may be lacking... where to focus...

RIP James, from all accounts I have heard from people who knew you you were a pretty stand up awesome dude. I’m sorry Mother Nature took you so soon in your life. But I will not believe or condone it was a random unpredictable act of nature, and that future climbers can’t be respectful and analytical at the same time, and learn from this to help prevent similar loss of life.

Mis-interpretations of the oft-quoted Freedom of the Hills book do nothing to further understanding of what occurred here, and I am glad to see the active majority here agree.

Is the “mountain guilty”... jesus H-Christ... is there anyone in your world that would entertain  your questions outside of NEClimbs?

Offline OldEric

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Re: Fatality on 3/1 in Huntington
« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2013, 10:32:08 PM »
Champ, I would bet that you know next to nothing about the climber, his skill level, his experience and competence, or how the avy got triggered.  Please get off your high horse and stop your know-all preaching.  Some young man is dead, his loved ones are beside themselves with grief.  Show some humanity.

If you were injured in an avy due to some unstated/unknown reason, how would YOU feel if we right away call you a f#@king idiot and are the "climb fast and hard. Bolt, one point crampon, pick that enter very easily in the ice ..." type, etc.

Thanks Soon.