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[lucky luke]

Some young man is dead, his loved ones are beside themselves with grief.  Show some humanity.

I wrote: "We are all guilty. One to let the new generation do a "fast food" learning without training (it apply to sport too)  and the other to deny that older knowledge and deep understanding doesn't go to improve your level of climbing, but will bring you safely to your home."

I show some"humanity" before an accident happen, not after. And I didn't said that he is an idiot.

My first question was: did I influence someone to climb in a dangerous situation?

Did I say, like Dman, that considerable danger wednesday is more dangerous than moderate danger on friday, so we can go climbing?

I am really sorry and mad because I am really concern about bringing my partner safely at home. As a leader, it is my first duty.
as I think about what to do... 

[lucky luke]

I understand there was a fatality in the Ravine today.  A young HMC climber that I knew - wonderful guy.  Very sad..

In a previous thread you wrote: "Ironically Odell's and South have "Low" conditions today (Sunday).  But LL could say the sun is going to rise tomorrow and everyone would jump down his throat." See "who will go to climb in huntington ravine sunday?" in general climbing

Maybe I don't use the good aproach to sensibilise people and I am sorry for that. And we can't save every body, some accident are pure badluck.  but it is really what I try to do.

It is very sad. 

[old_school]

Truly a sad loss for Jame's family, loved ones and the climbing community.

[tradmanclimbz]

So sad. I was always super nervous getting through the snow that loads up on the 2nd pitch of Pinnacle.. Snow shetches me out on an ice climb. If i have a rope i always fire in a screw right before the snow........

[Admin Al]

one thing some folks forget is that a climb may be steep at the start, but becomes avalanche angle near the top or even in the middle. Pinnacle is a funny climb in that it's steep at the start then eases off to a snow climb at about a 30/45 degree angle, and then steepens near the top and then it is yet another snow slope again where you slog up to the alpine garden. thus it can be a difficult climb to assess. I'm not sure where he was swept off or if he did trigger it himself. the news report talks about being sweep 1000 feet down the fan, but it's 800' from the base of the gully to the bottom of the fan!

honestly, considering how things had been over the preceding couple of days, I'm not sure of what I would have climbed up there, if anything, if it was me. I've sure turned around enough times over the years and written the day off to a "nice walk"! FWIW I have climbed Odell when it looked good for 2 pitches, and then right at the top there was a pillow of snow that I KNEW was unstable so I popped in v-threads and bailed. I felt fine about that too...

to paraphrase R Heinlein , the mountain is a harsh mistress!

[old_school]

to paraphrase R Heinlein , the mountain is a harsh mistress!

Amen

[OldEric]

I understand there was a fatality in the Ravine today.  A young HMC climber that I knew - wonderful guy.  Very sad..

In a previous thread you wrote: "Ironically Odell's and South have "Low" conditions today (Sunday).  But LL could say the sun is going to rise tomorrow and everyone would jump down his throat." See "who will go to climb in huntington ravine sunday?" in general climbing

Maybe I don't use the good aproach to sensibilise people and I am sorry for that. And we can't save every body, some accident are pure badluck.  but it is really what I try to do.

It is very sad.

Champ - in general I probably do have more sympathy for you then most.  I am amused by the back and forth between Dave and you - 'by the book" v. "real world experience"  - I think there is merit in both.  I enjoy your fractured English which I think might just be a little more calculated then you let on. But I think in the case where there is a serious or fatal accident it should by common sense/courtesy  to not start analyzing - not start with the "I would never/I would always/I would have done this that or the other thing" immediately in the same thread.  And I am not addressing this just to you but you have set yourself up as a magnet.  And yes some times accidents are just unfortunate events that could have happened to any of us.  I first soloed Pinnacle > 30 years ago with tools that were primitive by today's standards - I was no way near as solid as Jimmie was - but I got away with it.  DUMB luck.

[lucky luke]

But I think in the case where there is a serious or fatal accident it should by common sense/courtesy  to not start analyzing - not start with the "I would never/I would always/I would have done this that or the other thing" immediately in the same thread.  And I am not addressing this just to you but you have set yourself up as a magnet.

I am sorry and I agree with you. It is more time to understand what went wrong and think that it can happen to us, than to show that we are smarter because we didn't felt. A solid discussion will came after.

I am angry against jbrochu who by his picture, ridiculise the importance of the discussion that I bring on the danger of following the avy danger. He bring some other people to do the same (Shepherds Pie) and some don't have his esperience and will die on the mountain. Many other said that I am a troll because I describe the danger two oe three days after a thunderstaorm is higher than during the snowfall...I am angry about dman who plug is courses in the discussion (In my courses I make it clear that there is no such thing) saying that you most go to the mountain, but not when the avy danger is moderate or higher (see accident in central couloir)...

I don't know if james knew the danger and take a decision that bring him in danger (going in the cliff two days after a snowstorm could be safe too) or if he was just enjoying a climb without thinking at the consequences. or if he follows a set of rules teach by the older...

I just want to know to understand the danger and I will trained to be able to avoid thhe danger

 

[DLottmann]

<post moved to Lucky’s own thread as I agree this thread isn’t the place to debate knowledge>

[xcrag_corex]

Condolences to the young climber and his family. We live in a world that is high paced and can be cut short for any number of reasons. I hope his loved ones can find comfort in the good times they had with him and keep him in their memories. Too young for sure....

Side note: Cut the pissing match out on this thread. Not cool.

[darwined]

Side note: Cut the pissing match out on this thread. Not cool.

+1

[DLottmann]

Side note: Cut the pissing match out on this thread. Not cool.

You are right, this isn’t the thread for debating. I’ve moved my post over to Lucky’s own thread regarding Wet Avalanches..

[DLottmann]

Conway Daily Sun article today:

http://www.conwaydailysun.com/index.php/newsx/local-news/95513-avalanche-030513

[DLottmann]

USFS Report posted: http://www.mountwashingtonavalanchecenter.org/search-rescue/2012-2013-summaries/

[lucky luke]

http://www.conwaydailysun.com/index.php/newsx/local-news/95513-avalanche-030513

In this article, I just can say that the guide who ski in tuckerman with his client was safe. The client trigger the avalanche, but the guide protected the skier/and was in the dangerous situation.

I will follow that guide in ski. The client had a real experiences of slab/hoar/wet avalanches, not knowing which one it was. If the client continu to ski, he will be a good skier.