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[strandman]

Ya -- it's not to good to stop the bleeding and then say "Oh. your gonna fucking die anyway "

We has a femur one time out i Huntingtons'   NOT GOOD i never did the traction/ hiking pole before and i never want to do it again

[ELM]

Not really sure I would ever teach someone traction...or do it in the field
Seriously: there is a need for a class like Comeau and Hurley did. Full day; less than $100, no cert. but knowlege and skills that can save a life.

[strandman]

I/m not saying I was taught  I wa with WEMT and his first time as well.. learned a lot that day

you ain't gettin' that in FOTH

[DMan]

Not really sure I would ever teach someone traction...or do it in the field
Seriously: there is a need for a class like Comeau and Hurley did. Full day; less than $100, no cert. but knowlege and skills that can save a life.

I’ve been wanting to get involved with SOLO for awhile, especially after seeing a couple guides out west offer a week long avalanche/first aid combination course... It was basically AIARE 1 plus WFA... makes sense as if someone in your group is buried they are quite likely to have trauma (especially round’ here)... We can definitely offer that type of program... Cost would look like:

$275 for 1v1
$150 3:1

We could probably do $95 for a 4:1 course...

We actually have a senior guide who has been involved with SOLO for a long time (Peter Lewis) who would be perfect to run this type of course...

I’ll chat with management about getting something like this scheduled...

In hindsight, the real issue is trying to cram rope rescue skills plus first aid into 8 hours... but something may be possible...

[sneoh]

Trying to cram too much into a 1-day course is a common pitfall of many courses.  I think it is more important to get the participants to remember everything they are taught and have time for hands-on 'practice' of the key points/skills.  If the amount of material is better suited for a 2-day course, so be it.
If you all can arrange for a 3:1 or 4:1 1-day course in WFA for $100+/-25, no cert, I would love to be able to attend and learn something.  I've been in a number of rescues over the years and each time feeling a little helpless and mostly acted as a mule or a runner (to get more help or to make sure the EMT can find us).

[hobbsj]

Shoot, if you guys are going to organize a class for yourself, customize it.  I'm assuming you will be going in with all the basics of climbing.  Just have them do a few rescue systems without worrying about the very basics by communicating what you know before hand and add a first aid class.  There's always going to be a skill that could possibly save somebodies life.  You can't get them all.  Just do a first aid class (bleeding, splints, and a couple of other things) with a bit of rescue work and you can walk away with the majority of what you will encounter.  With even a bit of background knowledge in the class, you should be able to cover most of the skills w/o being inundated.  Remember that classes are normally written for the lowest common denominator.  Just sayin it sucks when half the class is getting one guy up to speed especially when you're paying for it.

[ELM]

I would keep the first-aid and self rescue seperate. The first aid class would appeal to not just climbers. The 4:1 ratio @ $95 is perfect!

[sneoh]

I would keep the first-aid and self rescue seperate. The first aid class would appeal to not just climbers.

I agree.

Remember that classes are normally written for the lowest common denominator.  Just sayin it sucks when half the class is getting one guy up to speed especially when you're paying for it.

Good point! 

[DMan]

A 2 day Wilderness First Aid course at SOLO in Conway, NH is only $160. They have one running the weekend of May 4th, just in time for the rock climbing season! They also offer them all over the place!

http://www.soloschools.com/index.cfm?event=courses.show&ctid=1

This really is a sound investment for ANYONE who spends time hiking, climbing, etc.

ELM, sending a PM.

[lucky luke]

you cannot have enough knowledge about this stuff     LL

totaly agree.

Should we sold safety? theorical question, but how closely relate to the subject first aid course. some want to sold a course to make money, not for safety. some want more safety and suggest a course. The mentality of both are very different. One want to please a customer to untertain him for two days, the other will say the real thing: you can dye.

For a customer, it is fun to say in a meeting: you know I took a two days courses and we learn to do cardiac reanimation...so don't worry!!! But it is not fun to say: the guide pull me out of my stance and I felt three feet because I didn't belay my leader correctly. (I don't want to enter in a discussion if pulling litely someone of his stance or speaking to the guy his a good practice to remember safety, it worked with me long time ago).

In my opinion, first aid course most be a part of the beginer courses, a two hours or so, and it most be a follow up as the student graduate from one level to the other. The course most be realistic, like a simulation for beginer of a broken leg and the logistic to bring the climber to the car, with references on some good books and/or sugestion of courses for those who have too much work
to read about first aid.

Conclusion: climbing like a "pro", hard climb, take so much time that people skip other point of climbing. Cranking a 5.11 is more important than to avoid an accident and there will be always some guy to plug courses to make money instead of guy giving free time to save people (hope to be wrong, specially for the rescue team)     

[tradmanclimbz]

But is not that simply the fault of the sport climber who trad is not first mentality

[DMan]

Conclusion: climbing like a "pro", hard climb, take so much time that people skip other point of climbing. Cranking a 5.11 is more important than to avoid an accident and there will be always some guy to plug courses to make money instead of guy giving free time to save people...

I agree that people learn to climb 5.11 before learning self-rescue and basic first aid skills, and that’s unfortunate. However “giving free time to save people” is a bit idealistic. If I was independently wealthy and didn’t need to put food on the table I’d be happy to offer free self-rescue courses in the name of safety...

Maybe it’s cultural... you guys have free college and medicare right? My Canadian friends say a trip to the ER in Canada is a nightmare... but it’s free right?

[tradmanclimbz]

dave.  a trip to the ER in the good ol USof A is not only a nightmare but  you come away from it in debt for life. And i can personaly vouch for the fact that you get treated  way different when you have insurance than when you do not. I have been through it both ways...........

[strandman]

Alright ! now we are going ... i negotiated prices for my hip   ,good thing the overall cost was $96,000.. two days in hospital.  i canada you may wait a year for a joint replacement,, maybe

I did a day thing with George bitd as a trade for an f/a , barter.... he played knocked out/dead  and " what are you going to do ?" Learned a lot that day. 

i think the MRS guys in NH are great,, spend some time, help out and learn something... THEN go to yosemite ans get scared shitless

[lucky luke]

But is not that simply the fault of the sport climber who trad is not first mentality

sorry that you bring safety and first aid courses to a conflict between sport and trad.

medicine have numbered of wonderfull cure for any thing...is the first aid courses and avalanche courses a wonderfull cure for climber? You take a course and sudently you are safe?

As I state, for me, teaching climbing is teaching safety. Teaching safety is: 1-finding a dangerous situation 2- finding solutions to avoid the danger and 3- choice and execution of a solution.