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[sneoh]

Give us all bit of a break and help each other out. The media does enought to get climbing accident wrong; we don't need to help create them.

+1

Hear, hear.

[lucky luke]

If they are doing stupid stuff you point it out.
[...}
The media does enought to get climbing accident wrong; we don't need to help create them.

One of the last journal I red on climbing (http://www.conwaydailysun.com/index.php/rss-feed/95685-slides-030913) is a good paper for climber and all user of mt Washington. He interview at least two guides that I know personally and whit who I can rope up any times. And they bring argument from both side. A good paper. 

I always think at the next one. If the guy as poor judgment, he his an isolate case and few accident like that will happen... But Rcory (and many others) don't say that: " Ice climbing is becoming much more popular and it feels like we keep seeing more and more inexperienced climbers taking really foolish risks. Casual falls on lead, standing in the firing line of dangerous hanging ice, soloing shit...". So, maybe is a social problem.

If they are doing stupid stuff you point it out. Some people understand that it is a social problem that we can solve. Evolution go by mistake and good move. Asking question, like rcory did, and talking about it could be a good move to lower the number of foolish risk.
   

[kenreville]

A "social problem"?

What a load of crap. Many people (myself included) climb to GET AWAY from societal restraints. Just what ISN'T needed. Someone else telling you what/what not to do. Stop trying to save the world and be responsible for your own actions. Not others'.

[hobbsj]

A "social problem"?

What a load of crap. Many people (myself included) climb to GET AWAY from societal restraints. Just what ISN'T needed. Someone else telling you what/what not to do. Stop trying to save the world and be responsible for your own actions. Not others'.

Amen.  I love the accountability in climbing.  You have the unforeseeable actions of nature that you do your best to prepare for and your own party's (or your own depending on philosophy) decision making to blame for anything good or bad.  There's no laws or big brother or some idiot that cuts you off on the freeway.  Its all you.  You don't want to stop and place pro?  Well, you better feel real good or have enough gas to quickly move to the next stance or YOU may take a ride. That idea is I guess why I was overly defensive of dude earlier in thread as he had his own decision making process, possibly his own line he thought was bomber, and we have no idea what was acceptable to him.  All we can do is learn from the accidents like Al said, educate newbies that we take under our wing (I'm thankful every time i go out for the awesome mentor I had when I moved here), and speak up if it seems like somebody around you missed something.  Beyond that, its personal accountability.

[darwined]

A "social problem"?

What a load of crap. Many people (myself included) climb to GET AWAY from societal restraints. Just what ISN'T needed. Someone else telling you what/what not to do. Stop trying to save the world and be responsible for your own actions. Not others'.

Amen.  I love the accountability in climbing.

+1

[tradmanclimbz]

There is no gray area in SOLOING(climbing is a bit different).

Darwined. The above statement tells me that you know about as much about climbing as I know about spelling.

[darwined]

There is no gray area in SOLOING(climbing is a bit different).

Darwined. The above statement tells me that you know about as much about climbing as I know about spelling.

I don't really understand your point.  Is this good or a dig?

[tradmanclimbz]

Most folks tell me i am an absolutly horrible speller...

[darwined]

Most folks tell me i am an absolutly horrible speller...

Oh cool.  Feel better now?

[tradmanclimbz]

I feel fine. Your statement implys that climbing is different from soloing which I find to be massivly uninformed/ignorant.  Soloing is climbing. One of the worst accidents I have been on scene for was a top rope failure. 18 or 21 broken bones. I forget which#? Ironicly the victim gave me shit for soloing about a decade after his top rope accident

Gravity does not care if you use a rope or not. At least when you are soloing you rely mostly on yourself and not the equiptment.

[darwined]

Your reading comprehension rivals your spelling.  "A BIT DIFFERENT"  Some safety system is completely different when compared to none at all.  If the climber is not proficient with the systems then it's only "a bit" different but you still have a chance of NOT cratering.

Seriously though... I'm just funnin'

[darwined]

Ever whipped on a rope?  I bet you have.  Ever whipped on a Solo?  I bet you haven't.

[kenreville]

I feel fine. Your statement implys that climbing is different from soloing which I find to be massivly uninformed/ignorant.  Soloing is climbing. One of the worst accidents I have been on scene for was a top rope failure. 18 or 21 broken bones. I forget which#? Ironicly the victim gave me shit for soloing about a decade after his top rope accident

Gravity does not care if you use a rope or not. At least when you are soloing you rely mostly on yourself and not the equiptment.

If you think soloing is the same as climbing with a rope/belayer, YOU'RE the one who is "massively ignorant". I contend that if you find them the least bit similiar, then you haven't come close to finding the bounds of your personal envelope.

BIG difference WRT gravity if you screwup and you've effectively protected yourself, or going splat.

I find it incredulous that someone who has soloed at all, would come out with such an ignorant statement.

Don't sweat it darwined. You are correct.

And trad, you are correct about your spelling. It sucks.

[JBrochu]

There is no gray area in SOLOING(climbing is a bit different).  If you were soloing and need to be carried home in a litter YOU MADE A POOR CHOICE PERIOD!

I believe when it comes to soloing ice even the best have to assume some small chance of death due to circumstances beyond their control.

If you are soloing ice and haven't accepted that small probability, then I think you're fooling yourself. If you have accepted it, and your number comes up, then who are we to judge the quality of your choice?

If a climber isn't experienced enough to make a rational decision then the above wouldn't apply. But we don't really know for sure what happened in this situation. I just think your statement is flawed in general when it comes to very experienced ice soloists.

[darwined]

"if you have accepted it"

Now there's an angle I hadn't considered.  That's pretty hardcore... and yep...who am I to judge?