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Author Topic: modern definition of trad  (Read 4089 times)

kenreville

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Re: modern definition of trad
« Reply #45 on: April 21, 2013, 07:16:32 PM »

I for one would like to meet him. If for no other reason than to see if he speaks the same way he writes. Just cause he's different doesn't make him a pariah as far as I'm concerned.
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lucky luke

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Re: modern definition of trad
« Reply #46 on: April 22, 2013, 01:21:53 AM »

Luke, if my comments here scare somebody, I don't think they are ready for trad climbing as you seem to define it... and you really have to stop taking criticism, irony and sarcasm as attempts to humiliate you if you are going to have conversation with a bunch of climbers. {...}
Could it be an issue with you and not because you are expressing a revolutionary or unpopular idea?

I think that the idea is unpopular and show the difficulty of people to climb on a different style an ethic than trad. Sport climbing was not a sport before, but a bad ethic. Sport climber with there bolt and gymnastique style was not appreciate by trad climber. 
To prove who have the best ethic, competition was very appealing for sport climber. In a gym, you take a sport climber and trad climber and make it climb each one of two identical route. sport climber are better. In the wild, can I say to a sport climber: if you died, you are worse than me? (see the movies on the first ascension of the cerro torre) Trad climber can not compete on that ground, we have to close our mouth and talk about safety. For many strong trad climber...they prefer to see there children doing sport climbing only with minimal knowledge so they won't go to kill themselve in the mountain. The trad climbing style felt in the back ground as the highest difficulty of he words was done.

"of the constant, overbearing, myopic analyses": it is what you said. It is certainly not a compliment. If my analysis is myopic, yours is the good one? Jake Datch change what I said "horses with blinkers" for a "blinkered person" to make me less appreciate by the climber community. You fight to win your war. It is not an issue with me. Kenreville suggest me to go to a all bolt place. The old definition of trad is someone who like to place there own protection. We are in two different world. 

In modern definition of trad, I used an old discussion to show that there are different motivation to climb. I take the reader from one point, only one motivation, to an other...you can choose your motivation. I didn't even talk about sport climbing. after that I wrote about survival mode, without talking of sport climbing. I was talking about trad and nobody like to be humiliate as you are doing for me. The people who are scare by your way of "one option discussion" are not going to participate because they don't like that. An experience trad climber participae and he was humiliate as retrograde person.

It seems that you have an all sport mentality and see accusation to your perfect style every where. paranoia...unpopular idea or issue with me...

This thread show that you go to far in your desire that every body climb sport.

 
     
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tradmanclimbz

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Re: modern definition of trad
« Reply #47 on: April 22, 2013, 07:04:57 AM »

If everyone climb sport how come cannon so busy every weekend?
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Admin Al

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Re: modern definition of trad
« Reply #48 on: April 22, 2013, 07:17:17 AM »

It seems that you have an all sport mentality and see accusation to your perfect style every where. paranoia...unpopular idea or issue with me...

interesting... I know a bunch of the folks on this forum, and I would hardly call most of them "sport climbers"...
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sneoh

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Re: modern definition of trad
« Reply #49 on: April 22, 2013, 07:21:16 AM »

I believe City of Rocks have plenty of both sport, mixed, and trad routes  Champ, do you even bother to get your facts straight before you write?
And it seems to me you are the one with the paranoia.

Edit: I understand Chanp's post more now after reading it three more times.  I believe "you go too far in your desire that every body climb sport." is directed at Mark. I know Mark and I can safely say that that cannot be his desire or intention.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2013, 12:12:48 PM by sneoh »
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kenreville

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Re: modern definition of trad
« Reply #50 on: April 22, 2013, 08:36:47 AM »

You are correct sneoh. There is anything/everything at the City.

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DaveR

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Re: modern definition of trad
« Reply #51 on: April 22, 2013, 08:50:12 AM »

You are correct sneoh. There is anything/everything at the City.

I have a good friend that lives very close to the City and I have climbed there more than a dozen times and it is my favorite place to climb in the US and there is everything there. Some of the crack climbing there is amazing! How about "Crack of Doom" to wake you right up! It is not bolted like Rumney either at the City.

LL - There are some bolted "sport" routes there that will scare the shit out of you.
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JakeDatc

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Re: modern definition of trad
« Reply #52 on: April 22, 2013, 09:12:17 AM »

Every time you assume that sport climbers can't be trad climbers and "will die" on a trad route people hate you more. 

Here we have a 90% sport climber onsighting 5.8+  which some "trad" climbers have pathetically call 10c.  I wonder how many "trad" climbers miss the bomber knee bar,  I wonder how many let their feet cut because it's easier to swing your feet up to the next hold, I wonder how many of them piss their pants on the exit moves because they don't know how to climb while they are pumped out and don't know how to rest on an overhang. 



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David_G48

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Re: modern definition of trad
« Reply #53 on: April 22, 2013, 11:57:37 AM »

Ah yes Modern Times....not a 5.10 C for sure. I thought it was more of a 5.7+ when I did it. Toughest spot was getting under that tree without grabbing it. Not sure of how this relates to definition of trad. I guess Modern Times would be a model of what a trad route would look like.
The hardest thing about trad climbing is not the climbing but the placement of gear in a reliable mode. For some people this is no problem for others they have trouble figuring out what is right and what is wrong. For others it is the head game of climbing over removable gear. I think that any route that requires gear can be a modern definition of trad. In the past climbers did not put so much time into defining trad vs sport. Quite a few climbs that we call trad today were done with fixed gear (pitons) that were placed and could not be removed by the 2nd. Just my opinion and we all know that opinions are like another part of the human anatomy and we all have one.
Carry on Luke you challenge my ability to descramble code and yes, you offer some interesting and worthwhile opinions.
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JakeDatc

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Re: modern definition of trad
« Reply #54 on: April 22, 2013, 12:47:44 PM »

Ah yes Modern Times....not a 5.10 C for sure. I thought it was more of a 5.7+ when I did it. Toughest spot was getting under that tree without grabbing it. Not sure of how this relates to definition of trad. I guess Modern Times would be a model of what a trad route would look like.
Stay away from the tree ;)  use the giant jugs. 

It is an example of how a sport climber that has learned to place gear can comfortably lead what trad climbers find quite difficult.    Champ often touts that sport climbers are inferior in many ways and it's simply not true. 

a professional case and point..  Ethan Pringle has sent Realization .15a,  has bouldered Evilution which is V12 highball and Esperanza V14,  has done decent level crack at least out west.    He learned to climb in a gym in CA and competed in comps.

Kevin Jorgeson might be an even better  example... also learned to climb in the gym doing comps and  has done V14 bouldering, 5.13 free solos, E10 grit, and 13+ sport routes. 

but you know... everyone needs a label. 
« Last Edit: April 22, 2013, 12:55:32 PM by JakeDatc »
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mechanicalchris

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Re: modern definition of trad
« Reply #55 on: April 22, 2013, 01:02:02 PM »

There was something about the Grinch that just wasn't right
Perhaps he got bad sleep at Jigger Johnson last night
Or maybe his Mythos were just one size too tight http://bit.ly/17J58JO

The Grinch stood looking out from the first pitch of Standard http://bit.ly/Zhp7A8,
he turned to his girlfriend and sneered in anger:

"All these sport climbers, with their boom blasters, their hang-diggety-doggers, sport-backs, and rum-rumney
The noise!!! The noise!!! The noise this spring will drive me crazy http://bit.ly/10rPzpn

The Grinch thought how they'd scream so loud while they worked their 5.19A
Did she say I was "on"? or am I "off" belay?

They'll bring their dogs, their girlfriend, their girlfriend's girlfriend, their parents, infants, and tenants.
They'll turn climbing into something pubescent, jock Alex Honnold and wave Chris Sharma pennants

They'll come to the crag late...
And swarm you in impersonal groups of no less than twenty eight.

Harvard grads, MIT lads, and new dads,
will make unnecessary chatter like "Isn't this joint rad?"

Cantabrigian moms sporting the latest yoga pants and 3-wheeled stroller fads
will nap under your climb on boulder pads

They'll make their seasonal outdoor pilgrimage from MetroRock by the bus load
fill-up the Flume with unused lines and break through the floor

most climbing not, they'll monopolize spots
just smoking pot and leave anchors with poorly dressed knots 

You'll pull off the Kanc and exclaim with glee "Ah ha, an empty lot!" 
But after a committed walk-in, they'll invade Champney at 11 oclock

They'll step through your rope with a crampon
to say "hi" to strangers they found on meetup.com

They'll say "excuse me" all day long
Park like a morron and make you pull on the lawn

Oh how I hate everything about sport!
Noobs are stronger than me, climbing 5.12 at Watertown, Concord, and even Newburyport!

But then.... The Grinch put a cup to his ear... http://bit.ly/11xYdBq
and heard nothing but the chirp of newborn chicks
and a light breeze sweep past Frankenstein cliffs

The Grinch got an awful, awful, wonderful idea. http://bit.ly/17e1IAk

"With all of the new gyms no one will make it up I-93" he thought with glee
"Certainly not past exit 26 for Rumney"

And in that moment the Grinch's heart grew by 10 http://bit.ly/11vDDCW
He reasoned, "Just perhaps, sport climbing is my friend"

It's ok if that's what they want to do
Because it leaves Franconia, Crawford, Pinkham and other places too
For climbers like me and you

With the power of 10 Grinches he found the strength to send
He even did the optional second pitch, all the way to the end

"Hooray for gyms and sport climbing...  hooray for sport climbing!" He cheered atop Rattle Snake Mountain http://bit.ly/11vksJn     

All the gym junkies, boulderes, and sport climbers sat their in awe
As even the Grinch, yes, the Grinch
Clipped a bolt with a sport climbing draw
« Last Edit: April 22, 2013, 01:13:19 PM by mechanicalchris »
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M_Sprague

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Re: modern definition of trad
« Reply #56 on: April 22, 2013, 01:09:52 PM »

Best post^
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xcrag_corex

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Re: modern definition of trad
« Reply #57 on: April 22, 2013, 01:12:12 PM »

Everyone can can it now. Mechanical Chris just won the Internet!!!!! Haha that was awesome!!!!
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DaveR

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Re: modern definition of trad
« Reply #58 on: April 22, 2013, 01:35:35 PM »

Everyone can can it now. Mechanical Chris just won the Internet!!!!! Haha that was awesome!!!!

Al- Time to lock this thread. Mechanical Chris gets the last word. Funny as hell.
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tradmanclimbz

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Re: modern definition of trad
« Reply #59 on: April 22, 2013, 07:17:59 PM »

My favorite example of a real climber that sport climbs is Uli Steck.
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