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Author Topic: modern definition of trad  (Read 3367 times)

sneoh

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Re: modern definition of trad
« Reply #60 on: April 22, 2013, 07:42:26 PM »

In that department, Dave MacLeod should be considered too.

All I can say is there must be a number of mean spirited "sport climbers" up in Quebec that have scarred Champ for life.  Champ, please get it into your head that those are just mean people, climbing sport routes alone does not turn one into a condescending, adventureless, and reckless individual.   
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"You have to decide to do a flag, where you can broke your vertebrae or a barn door depending of your pro" - the poster formerly known as Champ

DMan

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Re: modern definition of trad
« Reply #61 on: April 22, 2013, 08:25:08 PM »

climbing sport routes alone does not turn one into a condescending, adventureless, and reckless individual.

I rarely climb sport, but +1... I should climb more sport as I think it would help my trad climbing considerably...

Iíve said it for over two years, Champ is all about generalizations and black & white...

He also really thinks his posts help new trad climbers who may visit this site...

Dis-illusion at its finest...
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sneoh

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Re: modern definition of trad
« Reply #62 on: April 22, 2013, 09:41:27 PM »

DMan, mixing sport and trad can pay big dividends. I did them on alternate weekends for 1+ season back in the mid '90's and saw significant improvements in both over a relatively short amount of time.  But it takes more time and more discipline. 
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tradmanclimbz

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Re: modern definition of trad
« Reply #63 on: April 22, 2013, 09:45:56 PM »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amsm61u_P7M  Lucky luke goes climbing :-*    got watch out for the beenie wearing bolt clipping scum :P
« Last Edit: April 22, 2013, 09:52:12 PM by tradmanclimbz »
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JJ Jameson

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Re: modern definition of trad
« Reply #64 on: April 22, 2013, 09:55:25 PM »

Funny, for me, the "move " was the limit at my max, not the gear. Back in the day, (never to return...boohoo...) the hardest I ever on-sited was about 12c, both sport and trad. Didn't make a difference. I could either do the move, or not. So in my simple mind, I feel they are the same, sport/trad, is just climbing, with some climbs requiring a rack, and others just draws. Sure you have to fiddle with gear, and be efficient when getting a rest, but unless the ratings are totally sandbagged ( a trad tradition...) all of that is incorporated into the rating of the climb.
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kenreville

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Re: modern definition of trad
« Reply #65 on: April 22, 2013, 10:11:55 PM »

Funny, for me, the "move " was the limit at my max, not the gear. Back in the day, (never to return...boohoo...) the hardest I ever on-sited was about 12c, both sport and trad. Didn't make a difference. I could either do the move, or not. So in my simple mind, I feel they are the same, sport/trad, is just climbing, with some climbs requiring a rack, and others just draws. Sure you have to fiddle with gear, and be efficient when getting a rest, but unless the ratings are totally sandbagged ( a trad tradition...) all of that is incorporated into the rating of the climb.

Which brings up a good point JJ. When it comes right down to the physical aspect of pure climbing, bolted climbs are more likely to allow that to occur. If the point is to move efficiently over difficult terrain, then how does diddling around with gear amplify that? Simply, it doesn't.
For me personally, in a nutshell- I climb. Trad, bolted, solo. It don't matter too me.
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Admin Al

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Re: modern definition of trad
« Reply #66 on: April 22, 2013, 11:16:52 PM »

For me personally, in a nutshell- I climb. Trad, bolted, solo. It don't matter too me.

+1

ice too... it's all climbing.
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Al Hospers
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M_Sprague

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Re: modern definition of trad
« Reply #67 on: April 23, 2013, 05:19:02 PM »

But it is aid Climbing, Al   ;)
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Re: modern definition of trad
« Reply #68 on: April 23, 2013, 09:47:44 PM »

But it is aid Climbing, Al   ;)

LOL...
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sneoh

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Re: modern definition of trad
« Reply #69 on: April 23, 2013, 10:18:46 PM »

Is the modern definition of trad - "with aid or by any means necessary"? :)

Just kidding people.
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lucky luke

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Re: modern definition of trad
« Reply #70 on: April 24, 2013, 11:53:01 AM »

  I wonder how many "trad" climbers miss the bomber knee bar,   


You see the flake on the left of the three, just above your pro... it is where is the 5.10 c. The flake itself is 5.8+ and if you climb higher it is 5.9 and if you traverse right it is 5.10 c...not hard, but you are tired. My partner follow, in second, by the easy variation that you took.

The flake is boomer, and you lost a lot of energy in it, making the seconbd move harder than it appear. if you are a 5.9 climber growing into the 5.10, the move is hard. If you are a 5.12 climber and climb baby route, you will find it easy.. what ever your ethic. Using nuts and hex in that flake most be exciting for trad climber, and dangerous. New friends make the fall in the air so safe.

Maybe the reason why they call it modern time.

 

 
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lucky luke

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Re: modern definition of trad
« Reply #71 on: April 24, 2013, 12:22:01 PM »

Funny, for me, the "move " was the limit at my max, not the gear. Back in the day, (never to return...boohoo...) the hardest I ever on-sited was about 12c, both sport and trad. Didn't make a difference.

5.12... you are an experienced climber and to do that you had to train in different terrain. doesn't mean that you are able to climb fugue easy pitches, which are harder than the 5.10 at the bottom. But the question of trad and sport is not for experienced climber who know the difference. It is for new chalanger who when to play with the big guy. Those who died, it is those child who climb over there helmet because they are strong in sport and make no transition to the trad...they think that it is the same. so indirectly you push some one to an accident.

For me, I don't want to climb 5.12. I like to have a nice day in the cliff and just have fun with a good partner. In the post above, Jake datc was proud to did modern time, just to say that he did it. he didn't ask himself what was the fun of that route. The only fun move is the 5.8 and it is not the crux. he didn't climb to do the fun move, as he avoid it, but to say that he did it. many people have that mentality. I rememberd that I brought two climber on the Como finish at cathedral. The women, follow my protection and came close to the edge to see the bottom and like that. The other want to do the 5.10 crack...with a pro thirty feet below, because in sport he can do it, and was scare to do the safe friction traverse. A better knowledge of the danger in trad will have made the leadership a lot more easier.

I think that it is unfair for your friend and other citizen to sold the easiest way to climb, like in modern time. it is means that people can't choose what they want to do, but to climb hard like you. Doing 5.6 could have more value to someone than trying to be like an hero.

Do you think that you don't ever listen to a modern definition of trad? and din't bring any argument to show that a new definition is not good? You just bullshit every thing and now the route modern time is just one move to the right for selfish people who want to thing that they are good. No other sense of respect for the one who unsight it without previous knowledge and the pleasure of the 5.8 move over the crux move...where I hug the three, unfortunately, because I had hard time...thinking that the rest was easier.     
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mopowers

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Re: modern definition of trad
« Reply #72 on: April 24, 2013, 01:08:26 PM »


You make a convincing argument Luke. Trad climbing is just much too dangerous, that is why i am striving to become a sport climber. As sole provider for my family i cant take chances anymore.

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pappy

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Re: modern definition of trad
« Reply #73 on: April 24, 2013, 01:21:09 PM »

I can think of a few climbs that in retrospect I would like to 'unsight'.
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sneoh

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Re: modern definition of trad
« Reply #74 on: April 24, 2013, 01:29:08 PM »

Champ, Modern Times was FA'ed 50 years ago.  I am SURE every variation of it has been climbed hunderds, if not thousands, of times, both intentioanlly and unintentionally. It is close to impossible to imagine the post by Jake will significantly influence the path people choose to take through Modern Times.
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"You have to decide to do a flag, where you can broke your vertebrae or a barn door depending of your pro" - the poster formerly known as Champ
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