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Author Topic: modern definition of trad  (Read 3895 times)

sneoh

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Re: modern definition of trad
« Reply #90 on: April 25, 2013, 01:54:11 PM »

Chamap, I think most people feel that for 99+% of us there is no need for a modern definition of trad climbing.  So you are in the minority and, cruelly perhaps, we are having fun with that fact.

Yes, DaveR, you might even DIE the next time you go trad climbing. :)
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"You have to decide to do a flag, where you can broke your vertebrae or a barn door depending of your pro" - the poster formerly known as Champ

strandman

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Re: modern definition of trad
« Reply #91 on: April 25, 2013, 09:27:22 PM »

and you wonder why I'm not responding any more to this thread ?
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kenreville

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Re: modern definition of trad
« Reply #92 on: April 25, 2013, 11:06:14 PM »

What's weird to me is that there is no "modern" definition of traditional climbing Champ. It is what it is.
In my mind it's free climbing clean (other than chalk). I really find a bucket load of joy hanging in there.....placing removable gear..... and pulling through the crank. It's a good feeling, and why we (at least me) climb in the first place.
At the same time, there's literally miles upon miles of really good bolted routes that would be unclimbed rock without them. Great features, holds, but NO cracks, seams,flakes, etc to fix gear. Personally bud, I've bolted a few routes, and I hope you go and climb them. They're good climbing.
 
BTW- I've only climbed in the Gunks a couple of times- like 30+ years ago. Those pix of JakeDatc's are so damn sweet. Looks to me that you did an effective job protecting (nice use of slings) a great looking classic route in traditional style. And yet you lived to tell the tale.
Bravo!!!
The finger salute- that's a bonus.
 
« Last Edit: April 25, 2013, 11:09:52 PM by kenreville »
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sneoh

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Re: modern definition of trad
« Reply #93 on: April 25, 2013, 11:51:10 PM »

Ken, if I ever get motivated and strong again, I might just have to ask you about The Promised land at Sundown.  Your name is on the FA list.  Looks good in the photos I have seen and sad to say I did not look closer in person when I was over at Eyeless a few years back.
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JakeDatc

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Re: modern definition of trad
« Reply #94 on: April 26, 2013, 12:08:06 AM »

What's weird to me is that there is no "modern" definition of traditional climbing Champ. It is what it is.
In my mind it's free climbing clean (other than chalk). I really find a bucket load of joy hanging in there.....placing removable gear..... and pulling through the crank. It's a good feeling, and why we (at least me) climb in the first place.
At the same time, there's literally miles upon miles of really good bolted routes that would be unclimbed rock without them. Great features, holds, but NO cracks, seams,flakes, etc to fix gear. Personally bud, I've bolted a few routes, and I hope you go and climb them. They're good climbing.
 
BTW- I've only climbed in the Gunks a couple of times- like 30+ years ago. Those pix of JakeDatc's are so damn sweet. Looks to me that you did an effective job protecting (nice use of slings) a great looking classic route in traditional style. And yet you lived to tell the tale.
Bravo!!!
The finger salute- that's a bonus.
 

Ken if you want to go to the gunks and climb MT  i'm down. 

Thanks for the praise.  I had wanted to do that route since I first looked at it.  As an avid overhang climber there is no way I could look at that route and NOT climb it.   I love climbing at the gunks but hate hate hate double ropes so learning to sling effectively is something i pay attention to a lot (i've screwed it up and heinous rope drag is a bitch).  I also carry a few long slings sport climbing and make life easier on myself in spots.   The piece just out of frame to the left is actually a hex that i carry on my nut tool for a hammer that finds a home once in a while ;)

I do get offended when Champ says that i've had bad education or have not learned properly.. I have learned gear placement, rope management etc from some pretty skilled people i'm sure have much more skill than he does.   AND i haven't died yet.

I will admit the finger was for someone else who said i was just a sport climber. 

this is what happens when you lie about your ability. you end up hanging in shame without the ability to reach the rock and have to get rescued by a kind party behind you.  (and why i don't use my atc guide with people i don't know..  i couldn't put enough weight on a sling to release it)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v115/Socjake/Gunks/309409_2202751541301_1022708898_32491279_246532292_n.jpg
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lucky luke

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Re: modern definition of trad
« Reply #95 on: April 26, 2013, 05:32:01 AM »

I also don't use any heel hooks on that route.  knee bar yes, feet cutting yes.  heel hook.. no, it's unnecessary. 

So You have to do the roof, just take your gear and do it...it wort it.

More fun than this discuccion any way.
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lucky luke

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Re: modern definition of trad
« Reply #96 on: April 26, 2013, 05:37:40 AM »

I most say that I am a little sad because I will have discuss between lower the danger by training and lower the stress by doing the route with beta, in second or hang doggin.

I do try to lower the danger and the last post of jake dack was very trad as ethic.
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JBrochu

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Re: modern definition of trad
« Reply #97 on: April 26, 2013, 08:06:07 AM »


You make a convincing argument Luke. Trad climbing is just much too dangerous, that is why i am striving to become a sport climber. As sole provider for my family i cant take chances anymore.

glad that you think like that. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to discuss a modern definition of trad. If you think that one is much too dangerous than the other, it is because one is different than the other.

Be carefull to climb with sport climber who mixte both styles. They will bring you in dangerous situation and you won't be prepare to save your life.


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JakeDatc

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Re: modern definition of trad
« Reply #98 on: April 26, 2013, 08:54:55 AM »

I also don't use any heel hooks on that route.  knee bar yes, feet cutting yes.  heel hook.. no, it's unnecessary. 

So You have to do the roof, just take your gear and do it...it wort it.

More fun than this discuccion any way.
babalay blabalbuy what?
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Admin Al

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Re: modern definition of trad
« Reply #99 on: April 26, 2013, 10:52:55 AM »

now now boys... keep it civil...
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DLottmann

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Re: modern definition of trad
« Reply #100 on: April 26, 2013, 01:00:39 PM »

this is what happens when you lie about your ability. you end up hanging in shame without the ability to reach the rock and have to get rescued by a kind party behind you.  (and why i don't use my atc guide with people i don't know..  i couldn't put enough weight on a sling to release it)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v115/Socjake/Gunks/309409_2202751541301_1022708898_32491279_246532292_n.jpg

What was jammed up?
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JakeDatc

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Re: modern definition of trad
« Reply #101 on: April 26, 2013, 04:05:15 PM »

this is what happens when you lie about your ability. you end up hanging in shame without the ability to reach the rock and have to get rescued by a kind party behind you.  (and why i don't use my atc guide with people i don't know..  i couldn't put enough weight on a sling to release it)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v115/Socjake/Gunks/309409_2202751541301_1022708898_32491279_246532292_n.jpg

What was jammed up?

I dunno.. the fact that i weigh so little and he weighed more and was freehanging  made it really tough.. i use my Cinch now  either direct or redirected off my harness. 
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JBrochu

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Re: modern definition of trad
« Reply #102 on: April 28, 2013, 06:17:32 PM »

now now boys... keep it civil...

Can't we all just get along...?


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Have a quiche, now, or maybe a tort.  You deserve it!
-bristolpipe

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This is grain, which any fool can eat, but for which the Lord intended a more divine means of consumption.
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lucky luke

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Re: modern definition of trad
« Reply #103 on: April 28, 2013, 09:03:15 PM »


At the same time, there's literally miles upon miles of really good bolted routes that would be unclimbed rock without them. Great features, holds, but NO cracks, seams,flakes, etc to fix gear. Personally bud, I've bolted a few routes, and I hope you go and climb them. They're good climbing. [....]
Looks to me that you did an effective job protecting (nice use of slings) a great looking classic route in traditional style. And yet you lived to tell the tale.

Ken, a modern definition of trad climbing is not a fight for bolting or not a route. I climbed at owl's head cliff and there is many bolt route that we can not do other way. is it in trad? As you can understand, if you talk about bolt versus no bolt route in a thread to find a modern definition of trad climbing... with thirty years of experience, you can understand that a beginer or intermediate climber of two or three years of experience can place his life in danger if he think that trad and sport is the same.

The great classic route in traditional style that jake dack did was not the roof of modern time. As someone said, now 98% of the guy think that the true variation is to the right. never said that it was not a great climb.   :) I said that those who can not follow me took that variation ;D. Not very nice, even if it is the true. But when you talk to old local... what is modern time? I heard a story of someone falling in the roof and stay pathetically in the air, not knowing how to prusick to the last pro.
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JakeDatc

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Re: modern definition of trad
« Reply #104 on: April 28, 2013, 09:32:05 PM »

Quote
The great classic route in traditional style that jake dack did was not the roof of modern time.

I'm posting on Gunks.com to see the history of the variations.   hope you don't mind that i don't trust a single thing you say. 
« Last Edit: April 28, 2013, 10:07:28 PM by JakeDatc »
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