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Author Topic: modern definition of trad  (Read 4020 times)

lucky luke

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modern definition of trad
« on: April 14, 2013, 03:36:22 PM »

Actually, we defined trad climbing as: For those who enjoy placing protection on their own. This definition is it obsolete? It can be “for those who enjoy placing piton on their own”, and it will not make a big difference for many people as they don’t know what is a protection. In my opinion, modern definition must be clearer and more appealing.

In other thread, some people said that those who don’t compete are liar. The discussion turned to the existence of other motivations to do our sport. Some are to stay in shape, adrenaline boost, be in the wild in a warm day, to meet people. One of these motivations was the same one as in the star trek movies: “to boldly go where no man has gone before.”

Other point is the classification as extreme sport. As in more activity, extreme have a close relation to how you control your environment. If you have a bolt, you control more your environment than if you place a nuts; if you climb on sight, it is less in control than when you climbed each moved separately and try to send it after; etc. Less control that you have on the environment, more extreme is the sport.

When things go wrong is also a very important point. In a gym, there is not a lot of point that can go wrong. You are in control of the environment and people think about all what can happen to you. In the wild, climbing on sight, you never know what you will find up there. Could be good, as you expected the worse…or it could be the inverse. It is not a mistake to take a decision with some data and find later that you didn’t have enough data to predict correctly the situation. But when things go wrong you must know how to get out of the danger.

Control your environment and be an expert climber in few years…seems to me a good definition of sport climber.

For trad, what can be a modern definition if you consider that it is extreme and you most climb boldly, that it is to discover new world where you never go before, where things could go wrong in a minutes and you have to know your safety?
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snowleopard

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Re: modern definition of trad
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2013, 06:25:54 PM »

Dman
Drop the mouse and step away from the keyboard
Don't take the bait! :-X
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strandman

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Re: modern definition of trad
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2013, 06:29:15 PM »

LL, you are like heroin... I look but don't bite.

For any climbing definition, i look in Websters... '82, '87 and '96
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kenreville

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Re: modern definition of trad
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2013, 07:29:43 PM »

pffffffttt....

Remember Luke it's all about exploration.

And having fun.
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pappy

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Re: modern definition of trad
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2013, 07:59:01 PM »

I hate the term 'trad' anyway. What's called 'trad' is rock climbing. Sport climbing is sport climbing: As competitions demonstrated, it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with climbing rock, although it is sometimes done on rock.
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strandman

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Re: modern definition of trad
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2013, 09:30:42 PM »

a young chippie asked me a few years ago- " are you one of those guys who sets his own  gear ?"  AH... the chance  8)
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sneoh

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Re: modern definition of trad
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2013, 09:56:00 PM »

John, are you sure the pretty young thing did not have "weird" or "old" between "those" and "guys" when she posed the question? :):)

LL, for our sake, your foot better be feeling much better soon so that you can be climbing and spending near zero time at the keyboard.  Wait, don't you have CT too?  Better stay away from a keyboard all together then.  Man, you are falling apart.  Heel up fast and take good care of yourself.   
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DLottmann

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Re: modern definition of trad
« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2013, 09:58:15 PM »

<looks at shiny hook... swims away>
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lucky luke

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Re: modern definition of trad
« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2013, 10:44:18 PM »

I hate the term 'trad' anyway.
I hate the term trad too. Before I was thinking at a new name, adventure climbing. But body x position and adventure with women are to hard to differenciate from munkey hang technique and adventure climbing. I gave up to change the name.

If you can talk to climber before sport generation, maybe we can have an idea of there motivation to climb. And maybe we can find a modern definition to describe the climbing style that they developped on the early days and are still in used today.

 
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lucky luke

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Re: modern definition of trad
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2013, 07:58:36 AM »

Here is a picture of one of our guide book. The route number 2 Campanule, is a 5.7...called a 5.9 by the new generation. The only information that we had to climb it was the grade, 5.7, the percentage of grade 5.7 on the route, more than 75 % here, and the picture. It is close to lido climbed by some of you. In trad, we have to decide where is the belay and do it all on rock gear. One day, my partner pull a block of about two feet and I just had the time to go behind a tree before the rock hit the tree.

We boldly climb those route, not for the danger, but because they were a great climb. The route number one was dangerous, with a risk of ground fall at 80 feet and a long pendulum for the second. A bolt could be place very easily to secure the climb which is a very interesting 5.6 with great exposure on an arrete. As trad need bolt too, but in last resources.     
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lucky luke

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Re: modern definition of trad
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2013, 12:10:22 PM »

to boldly go where no man has gone before.”
One thing I learned about me, as I climbed in remote area, is the survival mode. One can discuss safety with a lot of importance, about all the aspect of his equipment...or you can be on survival mode: no thinking, no comparaison...just action (survival mode is better learned with a guide knowing the danger and with good insurance if you have an accident, they will teach you well as the insurance are expensive for them. Be aware that some guide teach you to avoid the danger (reason why I hate avy post) because they were not themselve in survival mode).

To understand it, imagine that you are at the office and do your day to day work with your partner. In that context, you will try to respect the other, show your knowledge, be a smart guy to show that you can have a better job or an increase of salary. In a rush day, you don't have time to be competitive. The job most be done and mistake happen. In that situation, you have the energy to work twelve hours a day. You trust your partner and do the job as fast and correctly as you can. It is survival mode.

I think that survival mode is essential for trad climbing as you don't have any control on the environment. You are always looking for the danger and how to avoid it instinctively. Instinct means that you don't have any control on your respond to stress... It is the reason why training is so important in trad climbing: you develop your instinct of survival when things go wrong.

   

 
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JakeDatc

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Re: modern definition of trad
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2013, 01:25:16 PM »

lol when no one will talk to him he talks to himself 

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DLottmann

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Re: modern definition of trad
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2013, 04:06:30 PM »

Quoting yourself to keep the thread going... AWESOME...

Avy Reports are also AWESOME...

bye
« Last Edit: April 18, 2013, 04:08:03 PM by DMan »
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kenreville

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Re: modern definition of trad
« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2013, 08:13:40 PM »

to boldly go where no man has gone before.”
One thing I learned about me, as I climbed in remote area, is the survival mode. One can discuss safety with a lot of importance, about all the aspect of his equipment...or you can be on survival mode: no thinking, no comparaison...just action (survival mode is better learned with a guide knowing the danger and with good insurance if you have an accident, they will teach you well as the insurance are expensive for them. Be aware that some guide teach you to avoid the danger (reason why I hate avy post) because they were not themselve in survival mode).

To understand it, imagine that you are at the office and do your day to day work with your partner. In that context, you will try to respect the other, show your knowledge, be a smart guy to show that you can have a better job or an increase of salary. In a rush day, you don't have time to be competitive. The job most be done and mistake happen. In that situation, you have the energy to work twelve hours a day. You trust your partner and do the job as fast and correctly as you can. It is survival mode.

I think that survival mode is essential for trad climbing as you don't have any control on the environment. You are always looking for the danger and how to avoid it instinctively. Instinct means that you don't have any control on your respond to stress... It is the reason why training is so important in trad climbing: you develop your instinct of survival when things go wrong.

   

 

I just gotta know Luke, what remote areas have you climbed in and resorted to "survival" mode?
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strandman

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Re: modern definition of trad
« Reply #14 on: April 18, 2013, 09:54:22 PM »

I don't know a bout LL.. I have been to ibex , UTah.. great place... but 55 miles to bad beer.... that's survival
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