modern definition of trad

[lucky luke]

I just gotta know Luke, what remote areas have you climbed in and resorted to "survival" mode?

I don't remember if it is you or your partner who was in the avalanche. Was it survival mode? What is the importance that "remote" means himalaya, chili or a cliff in Quebec?

One of the most "survival thing" that I did is in fun house, cathedral ledge. I climbed alone with a self belay. i used a shunt and make the move over the first diedral. My shunt stop my progress and was under me. So I was facing the bottom of the cliff, falling head first, and I knew that my shunt was not going to stop my fall because of my position. I remember that I said never again.

Definition means noting, as you often said about the distinction between trad and sport,...but you know what is survival mode. A feeling that some thing will go wrong and, of all moment in your life where you fight for nothing...now you know that you fight to feel your blood in your vessel going forward.

I am a life   

[DaveR]

I am a life

You need to get a life!

[sneoh]

You need to get a life!

AGREED!

[DaveR]

I don't know a bout LL.. I have been to ibex , UTah.. great place... but 55 miles to bad beer.... that's survival

Ibex is way cool but it is a long ways from anyplace!

[JakeDatc]

I just gotta know Luke, what remote areas have you climbed in and resorted to "survival" mode?

I don't remember if it is you or your partner who was in the avalanche. Was it survival mode? What is the importance that "remote" means himalaya, chili or a cliff in Quebec?

One of the most "survival thing" that I did is in fun house, cathedral ledge. I climbed alone with a self belay. i used a shunt and make the move over the first diedral. My shunt stop my progress and was under me. So I was facing the bottom of the cliff, falling head first, and I knew that my shunt was not going to stop my fall because of my position. I remember that I said never again.

Definition means noting, as you often said about the distinction between trad and sport,...but you know what is survival mode. A feeling that some thing will go wrong and, of all moment in your life where you fight for nothing...now you know that you fight to feel your blood in your vessel going forward.

I am a life   

BAHAHAHHAA  your "SURVIVAL"  was 10' off the ground on a 5.7??   

[kenreville]

I just gotta know Luke, what remote areas have you climbed in and resorted to "survival" mode?

I don't remember if it is you or your partner who was in the avalanche. Was it survival mode? What is the importance that "remote" means himalaya, chili or a cliff in Quebec?

One of the most "survival thing" that I did is in fun house, cathedral ledge. I climbed alone with a self belay. i used a shunt and make the move over the first diedral. My shunt stop my progress and was under me. So I was facing the bottom of the cliff, falling head first, and I knew that my shunt was not going to stop my fall because of my position. I remember that I said never again.

Definition means noting, as you often said about the distinction between trad and sport,...but you know what is survival mode. A feeling that some thing will go wrong and, of all moment in your life where you fight for nothing...now you know that you fight to feel your blood in your vessel going forward.

I am a life

Not for nothing Luke, I'm not so sure you really know what survival mode is. Solo aiding Funhouse doesn't make the grade IMO.
You also might consider who you are speaking to, your "audience". There's a few guys on this forum that I know personally (as well as myself) that have climbed in remote areas and REALLY understand what being in survival mode is all about.

[lucky luke]

Not for nothing Luke, I'm not so sure you really know what survival mode is. Solo aiding Funhouse doesn't make the grade IMO. You also might consider who you are speaking to, your "audience". There's a few guys on this forum that I know personally (as well as myself) that have climbed in remote areas and REALLY understand what being in survival mode is all about.

The audience are for those who want to understand what is trad climbing and the ethic of those before the sport climbing generation. It is for people who respect the other style of climbing and want to increase there knowledge and safety. Some of them will want to share the same passion and won't like to be insult as liar because they don't climb to compete.

Do we have a competition between people "that have climbed in remote areas and REALLY understand what being in survival mode is all about" and a women who divorce and don't have enought money for there two children? Both are in survival mode. it is an ego selfish sport climbing as we threatening our life voluntarilly. As I have to deal with very bad people who stold subvention by changing the data of experiences, for me, when all I have to thing is a piece of rock of three sqare feet, where I have to place my feet and to decide when to go. for me, it is the best moment to relax and come back ground to the reality.

As we discuss survival mode, we talk about life that are in danger and action that we make to avoid the danger. In trad climbing, we learn that by training and by climbing with experiences climber as guide and as friends. One day, some one asked me why I was doing a manipulation. I told him I don't remember. Some thing happen and the manipulation that I did instinctively save my life.

When are we in danger and when do we have the perception of being safe or in danger is where I want to bring some of the 160 people who read my post with the picture of the route in the mountain.     

[DaveR]

Not for nothing Luke, I'm not so sure you really know what survival mode is. Solo aiding Funhouse doesn't make the grade IMO. You also might consider who you are speaking to, your "audience". There's a few guys on this forum that I know personally (as well as myself) that have climbed in remote areas and REALLY understand what being in survival mode is all about.

The audience are for those who want to understand what is trad climbing and the ethic of those before the sport climbing generation. It is for people who respect the other style of climbing and want to increase there knowledge and safety. Some of them will want to share the same passion and won't like to be insult as liar because they don't climb to compete.

Do we have a competition between people "that have climbed in remote areas and REALLY understand what being in survival mode is all about" and a women who divorce and don't have enought money for there two children? Both are in survival mode. it is an ego selfish sport climbing as we threatening our life voluntarilly. As I have to deal with very bad people who stold subvention by changing the data of experiences, for me, when all I have to thing is a piece of rock of three sqare feet, where I have to place my feet and to decide when to go. for me, it is the best moment to relax and come back ground to the reality.

As we discuss survival mode, we talk about life that are in danger and action that we make to avoid the danger. In trad climbing, we learn that by training and by climbing with experiences climber as guide and as friends. One day, some one asked me why I was doing a manipulation. I told him I don't remember. Some thing happen and the manipulation that I did instinctively save my life.

When are we in danger and when do we have the perception of being safe or in danger is where I want to bring some of the 160 people who read my post with the picture of the route in the mountain.     

WTF!

[kenreville]

Not for nothing Luke, I'm not so sure you really know what survival mode is. Solo aiding Funhouse doesn't make the grade IMO. You also might consider who you are speaking to, your "audience". There's a few guys on this forum that I know personally (as well as myself) that have climbed in remote areas and REALLY understand what being in survival mode is all about.

The audience are for those who want to understand what is trad climbing and the ethic of those before the sport climbing generation. It is for people who respect the other style of climbing and want to increase there knowledge and safety. Some of them will want to share the same passion and won't like to be insult as liar because they don't climb to compete.

Do we have a competition between people "that have climbed in remote areas and REALLY understand what being in survival mode is all about" and a women who divorce and don't have enought money for there two children? Both are in survival mode. it is an ego selfish sport climbing as we threatening our life voluntarilly. As I have to deal with very bad people who stold subvention by changing the data of experiences, for me, when all I have to thing is a piece of rock of three sqare feet, where I have to place my feet and to decide when to go. for me, it is the best moment to relax and come back ground to the reality.

As we discuss survival mode, we talk about life that are in danger and action that we make to avoid the danger. In trad climbing, we learn that by training and by climbing with experiences climber as guide and as friends. One day, some one asked me why I was doing a manipulation. I told him I don't remember. Some thing happen and the manipulation that I did instinctively save my life.

When are we in danger and when do we have the perception of being safe or in danger is where I want to bring some of the 160 people who read my post with the picture of the route in the mountain.     

WTF!

I haven't the faintest?  All I'll say is Luke is if the difference between "sport" or "trad" means that much to you, might I suggest you up your game and start doing alot more unroped soloing. Brings the whole "when do we have the perception of being safe or in danger" right to the razor edge. After a good dose of that, whether a route has bolts on it or not won't matter all that much to ya. Gare-ron-teed.

[JakeDatc]

I'm pretty sick of the gibberish and nonsense...

Sport climbing is not necessarily a competition.   There are competitions that involve sport climbing, bouldering etc  but it is a pretty absurd point of view that all bolted climbs are a competition.   It is also absurd that people who climb bolted routes are in some way inferior to people who place gear.   MANY do both in various degrees due to location, opportunity, style preference. 

I really wish Champ  would move his illegible bullshit to a blog instead of trolling here. 

[sneoh]

LL/Champ, are you prone to self delusion and overblowing your personal experiences?
It reads like that to me.  I could be wrong .....

[strandman]

I will quote myself;

I have a wife

I have a knife

i have a beer

You don't know shit until you travel A LOT. A LOT.. i think 35 years , 30 states and 8 countries qualifies.. 

[kenreville]

Say Luke, have you ever been to the City of Rocks? Loads of bolted beauties that if you can't have fun on, you should just give it up. The times I climbed there, there was never any competition. There was: a maze of towers in a spectacular landscape, great bolted routes, livelong friends, and awesome camping. That sounds like fun right? You should lighten up a bit and plan a trip.

[lucky luke]

Say Luke, have you ever been to the City of Rocks?

Because I don't like that... and many people don't like that either. Before you hi jack the thread more than one hundred fifty person read the thread.

You understand that some people could agree with the old mentality and want to have a modern definition of trad climbing. You enter in the thread to make diversion and oblige every body to climb like you.

I respecte strong climber, Lynn Hill is a model for me as much as edlinger. they are not perfect and eddlinger was a sport climber. I respect Cote, Webster, SA, anderson, bouchard, Davis Murray for the ethic that they develop when they climb with piton. They climb safe and have a strategy to come back a live. they were strong climber too, but not on the same scale as you.

You asked me my experience on survival mode to make a comparaison with the "audience" who are better climber and have more survival mode than every body. I made the comparaison with a divorce women with the kid in a way that you can not compare me with you. I never say that sport was competition, but Jake Datc thing that because it is his answer.

You are like horses with blinkers. You go straight forward in one direction, sport climbing, destroying every thing in your way because you don't see that there is some thing else around. Althought different and not accessible to every body, trad climbing is a very rich ethic. 

[hobbsj]

I gotta know, what's LL's real job?  If his postings here reflect his communication skills, I'd say telemarketer.