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Author Topic: 12 year old Italian climbing prodigy dies  (Read 1387 times)

Admin Al

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12 year old Italian climbing prodigy dies
« on: July 10, 2013, 05:33:16 PM »

http://climbing.about.com/b/2013/07/06/italian-climbing-child-prodigy-dies-in-french-accident.htm

I'm sure many of you have already seen and heard about this... a real tragedy.
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Al Hospers
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eyebolter

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Re: 12 year old Italian climbing prodigy dies
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2013, 07:15:52 PM »

Hard to believe you could make that mistake, but we are talking about young kids here with non-climbing parents.  I remember friends of mine in the 70's setting a belay and clipping it into the gear loop rings on the Whillans Harness.



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DLottmann

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Re: 12 year old Italian climbing prodigy dies
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2013, 09:06:44 AM »

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lucky luke

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Re: 12 year old Italian climbing prodigy dies
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2013, 09:19:34 AM »

http://climbing.about.com/b/2013/07/06/italian-climbing-child-prodigy-dies-in-french-accident.htm

I'm sure many of you have already seen and heard about this... a real tragedy.

Just imagine what many of us will say if we saw that think happening in rumney and read what they wrote after:

"The accident happened because Tito used some new quickdraws purchased by another in the group of Italian climbers. The quickdraws were, however, incorrectly put together so that the clipping carabiner on the bottom of the draw was attached only to a rubber keeper loop, what Petzl calls the "string," instead of the sewn full-strength loop."

As a climber, and if you are to buy petzl quickdraws, what information is important?
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pappy

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Re: 12 year old Italian climbing prodigy dies
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2013, 10:44:53 AM »

I find this incomprehensible that evidently several climbers handled these things and no one said, 'Wait a minute.' I've actually got to admire Luke's restraint, as my first thought is that this is the archetypal example of gym/sport climber mentality. Good thing for Petzl that it didn't happen in the States, where a good PI lawyer could ream them good for not designing for dummies.
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M_Sprague

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Re: 12 year old Italian climbing prodigy dies
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2013, 11:11:02 AM »

I liked this read:

http://eveningsends.com/2013/07/tito-traversa-death/
" don’t know anyone who has ever inspected a rack of quickdraws. I know that I never have. Look at the differences between the draw that is incorrectly racked, and the one that is correct. They look almost identical. If I were Tito, just casually warming up in the sun with my friends, I would’ve taken those draws, put them on my harness and not thought twice about it.  And you know what? You would have too."

That is the problem: complacency. Maybe I am anal, but no, I usually do inspect the quickdraws that somebody hands me. I check that the slings aren't crap and give the gates a flick to make sure they aren't sticky. I feel sorry for the kid and those around him, but there was major pilot error going on there, from the person who put them together, to the climber who is ultimately responsible for checking his gear properly. I do think that lots of sport climbing and especially gym climbing where the draws are all up for you, especially in the formative years where habits are developed contribute to the problem. So, though the author has some points, I would have to disagree with him.

I have run into quite a number of young successful indoor competition climbers who were scarily unaware of basic safety protocol like redundancy and double checking their partners. I remember being up on the Predator ledge at Rumney and a couple young but strong teenage girls came up to try Predator. The leader attached her self with one standard quickdraw and brought her partner up, both giggling away like they were sitting on their floor at home playing with their cellphones. When I suggested maybe she should clip another draw on at least as a back up there was a blank "Oh". Nobody had told her before.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2013, 11:13:50 AM by M_Sprague »
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pappy

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Re: 12 year old Italian climbing prodigy dies
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2013, 11:37:17 AM »

Yeah, that writer is full of it:

"Look at the differences between the draw that is incorrectly racked, and the one that is correct. They look almost identical." Bullshit. A cursory glance screams 'Danger Will Robinson!' although I can understand how someone could take a rack of draws and start climbing without that cursory glance. I can't imagine looking at the draw while placing and clipping and not freaking immediately. I'm not trying to slag Tito with that, I just can't imagine me doing that.

'which I find disrespectful to Tito, who he was, the mastery he had over the sport, and the community of young talented climbers that he is among.' This is the kind of bullshit that creates these kinds of situations: Repeat after me, climbing a 5.14 sport route demonstrates mastery of climbing 5.14 sport, it does not, emphatically, demonstrate mastery of the sport. I've never led harder than 5.11, lucky to lead solid 5.10 these days, but if you're on a big wall with crap anchors, scary gear, bad rock, and a storm blowing in, I assure you you will be happier with me as a partner than pretty much any 5.14 sport climber.

'No one goes out to a sport-climbing crag carrying the acceptance that they may die that day. No one.' Well they fucking well should, and that's the problem with sport climbers.

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M_Sprague

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Re: 12 year old Italian climbing prodigy dies
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2013, 11:52:23 AM »

In the picture, the draw they use as an axample of correct is not even so. The rubber keeper is on the wrong biner. It should be on the bottom biner with the curved gate. The upper one should be able to swing free.  :-[
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M_Sprague

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Re: 12 year old Italian climbing prodigy dies
« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2013, 11:59:38 AM »

'No one goes out to a sport-climbing crag carrying the acceptance that they may die that day. No one.' Well they fucking well should, and that's the problem with sport climbers.
Not all sport climbers by any means, but unfortunately too many. You see it in some trad climbers too, though the very fact of having to think about placing your gear helps get you into the head of analyzing the situation more (Look at Luke!)
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"Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is not a path and leave a trail."

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DLottmann

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Re: 12 year old Italian climbing prodigy dies
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2013, 02:57:39 PM »

Yeah, that writer is full of it:
...

'No one goes out to a sport-climbing crag carrying the acceptance that they may die that day. No one.' Well they fucking well should, and that's the problem with sport climbers.

Just to be clear, I said liked the read, not “I agree”. I definitely agree with this last statement though! I really think sport “mentality” or whatever Luke designates the complacency among sport climbers was a HUGE contributing factor to this, and similar, sport climbing accidents.

Gravity doesn’t care if you are a sport climber or a trad climber.
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Admin Al

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Re: 12 year old Italian climbing prodigy dies
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2013, 04:55:20 PM »

IMNSHO... in this sport, unlike almost any other, we are all just one error away from a tragedy.
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Al Hospers
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JBrochu

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Re: 12 year old Italian climbing prodigy dies
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2013, 05:08:52 PM »

In that picture from the article, those don't look at all like the Petzl strings (rubber keeper doo dads) that I have. Are those another brand or did Petzl change them sometime in the last 10 years? You couldn't possibly do what the picture shows with the Petzl strings that I own.
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perswig

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Re: 12 year old Italian climbing prodigy dies
« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2013, 06:08:35 PM »

http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/2175804/Tito-Traversa-12-Fighting-For-His-Life

http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/2178644/Tito-Claudio-Traversa-Death-and-Helmets

Couple o' ST threads on the accident, links, and lots of chatter about adult oversight (or lack thereof), complacency, trad vs sport (dear god, not again!), etc.
Dale
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eyebolter

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Re: 12 year old Italian climbing prodigy dies
« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2013, 08:28:44 PM »

http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/2175804/Tito-Traversa-12-Fighting-For-His-Life

http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/2178644/Tito-Claudio-Traversa-Death-and-Helmets

Couple o' ST threads on the accident, links, and lots of chatter about adult oversight (or lack thereof), complacency, trad vs sport (dear god, not again!), etc.
Dale


Thanks, interesting stuff although blaming not wearing a helmet helmet is nonsense.

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sneoh

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Re: 12 year old Italian climbing prodigy dies
« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2013, 08:39:19 PM »

'No one goes out to a sport-climbing crag carrying the acceptance that they may die that day. No one.' Well they fucking well should, and that's the problem with sport climbers.
Not all sport climbers by any means, but unfortunately too many.
I would say it is more like "gym bred" climbers that do not think they are going to die on any one outing.

I am a sport weanie these days but I am 'still' very careful about belay/belayers, gear, rope management, and anchors.
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