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Author Topic: warning  (Read 2411 times)

DMan

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Re: Re: warning
« Reply #30 on: August 04, 2013, 12:19:23 AM »

...Why five mistake I think that too many is impossible and two few is not possible as well. As it is my personal evaluation (personally I bail after five mistake) I don't have really to explain it. But if some one think that it is a good idea, why not?...

Because it takes only 1 mistake to get you killed... so for someone who is constantly spewing public awareness safety information in the form of non-coherent 5 paragraph posts I’ld ask you to re-consider telling people that “4 mistakes is OK, but 5 is deadly”...

Your mind is fascinating Dr. Sheldon Cooper Champ...
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lucky luke

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Re: Re: warning
« Reply #31 on: August 05, 2013, 09:38:02 PM »

hat kind of
Because it takes only 1 mistake to get you killed...

You take your atc, clip it wrong and belay your leader. He don't fall!!!

You still make a mistake, and nothing happens.

In the example that I gave from recompense, I describe that kind of situation where mistake was done and nothing happen.

As you don't see the mistake that you do as you climb....it is true that the only important mistake is the one you will killed you...for you. Other climber, if they are wiser, instead of using Krakauer mentality, will try to see the danger and understand where they are doing mistake...and in most situation, there is always a solution to get out of the problem, and be safer, and make dad and mom happier!!!   
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hobbsj

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Re: warning
« Reply #32 on: August 05, 2013, 09:59:34 PM »

Dude, did Krakauer steal you wife and kill your dog or something?  You referenced him all the time a while ago, stopped, and started again.  Your posts often annoy me, but I always give you the benefit of the doubt since you can bring some good substance.  But really?  Why this holier than thou attitude with Krakauer?  When I see a dog chasing his own tail I don't say he has LL mentality.
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sneoh

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Re: warning
« Reply #33 on: August 05, 2013, 11:25:50 PM »

IMO, as a belay device, the ATC is just about as "mistake proof" as it gets.  Cross loading (not limited to ATC tho) can happen but there is now a belay biner that greatly lessens the chance of that even.  You are correct, if you make a mistake threading the rope thru an ATC, you better stop climbing and seek medical/psychological help! :)


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lucky luke

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Re: warning
« Reply #34 on: August 06, 2013, 06:18:44 PM »

Dude, did Krakauer steal you wife and kill your dog or something? 

Into the wild and on the road (Kirouac) are very two opposite books. I saw many guy doing road trip and came back change and more motivate. That the guy in into the wild died because the river was floding all summer in Alaska is chocking... but still it is a great adventure.

He have a big influence on the next generation. I don't agree with him. question of opinion.

If you like what he wrote, to be compare to him shouldn't be a bad critic.
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eyebolter

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Re: warning
« Reply #35 on: August 06, 2013, 06:58:58 PM »

IMO, as a belay device, the ATC is just about as "mistake proof" as it gets. 

Let go of the rope with your brake hand and you will see how "mistake proof" it is.  The climber will not reach terminal velocity, but it will be close.

The beauty of the gri-gri is that your belayer can be dead from rockfall and he will still catch you.   
« Last Edit: August 06, 2013, 07:06:02 PM by eyebolter »
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danf

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Re: warning
« Reply #36 on: August 06, 2013, 07:44:56 PM »

I think what Soon was referring to was Luke's comment about 'clip the ATC wrong'
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DMan

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Re: warning
« Reply #37 on: August 06, 2013, 07:51:56 PM »

IMO, as a belay device, the ATC is just about as "mistake proof" as it gets. 

Let go of the rope with your brake hand and you will see how "mistake proof" it is.  The climber will not reach terminal velocity, but it will be close.

The beauty of the gri-gri is that your belayer can be dead from rockfall and he will still catch you.

Yet more people get dropped every year on GriGris than any other device. They work awesome for experienced belayers... but newbies continue to F-up with them... and I am sure only 5% of belayer GriGri errors are reported...

Bottom line, NO belay device is “mistake proof”.

I had an ex-girlfriend almost kill me lowering me off Junco. No one noticed she threaded the GriGri backwards... she was a pretty bright girl despite that move...
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sneoh

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Re: warning
« Reply #38 on: August 06, 2013, 07:57:49 PM »

Thanks, Dan, you are correct that is what I meant.  I am sorry for not being clear enough so Ward stays off my case!  :)
Gri Gri can convey a false sense of security and safety for some, but not everyone.
Yes, of course no belay device is absolutely mistake proof.  But it will take some real work to "clip an ATC wrong".
That is the only point I was trying to make.  I should have not pointed out a poor example used to advance one's point.
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Admin Al

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Re: warning
« Reply #39 on: August 06, 2013, 08:05:14 PM »

Yet more people get dropped every year on GriGris than any other device. They work awesome for experienced belayers... but newbies continue to F-up with them... and I am sure only 5% of belayer GriGri errors are reported...

Nothing personal, but can u document these numbers? I'd like to see them.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2013, 08:07:12 PM by Admin Al »
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danf

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Re: warning
« Reply #40 on: August 06, 2013, 09:12:56 PM »

I don't have numbers but within the last week someone on MP was dropped by his 'belayer'. A Gri Gri was being used and by information given it was threaded correctly... I'm on my Kindle so no good way to copy the URL of the thread...
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JakeDatc

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Re: warning
« Reply #41 on: August 06, 2013, 10:36:12 PM »

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DMan

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Re: warning
« Reply #42 on: August 06, 2013, 10:53:56 PM »

Yet more people get dropped every year on GriGris than any other device. They work awesome for experienced belayers... but newbies continue to F-up with them... and I am sure only 5% of belayer GriGri errors are reported...

Nothing personal, but can u document these numbers? I'd like to see them.

Nothing formal Al, but I’ve read enough and heard enough to know that (New Climber + GriGri = Danger). Other than personally almost being dropped I have heard of more belay errors with GriGris from ANAM and word-of-mouth.

I know you learned to belay long before GriGri’s were in existence... so it can be hard to see how someone might F-up belaying with a GriGri. If you lived in a city where most climbers were gym climbers you would be nervous 24-7. There is a huge population of new climbers who learn to belay with a GriGri before learning to belay with an ATC... you don’t see a problem there?
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sneoh

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Re: warning
« Reply #43 on: August 07, 2013, 07:57:15 AM »

This - "(New Climber + GriGri = Danger)" - is a good warning, or at least better than the OP's, IMO.
Too much slack, "leader is the hand", holding down the cam when the leader falls, and yanking the lever all the way back while lowering the leader are some of the mot common Gri Gri mistakes.
Pretty safe otherwise :)
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Jeff

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Re: warning
« Reply #44 on: August 07, 2013, 08:54:48 AM »

And one more-- threading the grigri wrong--deadly! :P
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