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Author Topic: Anchor Clipping, Direct Anchor Belays: Will Gadd  (Read 1406 times)

DLottmann

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Re: Anchor Clipping, Direct Anchor Belays: Will Gadd
« Reply #30 on: September 05, 2013, 02:02:46 PM »

Peter- you are exactly right about PAS shit... why carry  more stuff ? 

99% of the time i use just a fig 8 and clove for everything

Peter, that dynamic thingy is kinda cool...

Strand, I bashed the PAS for years, because as a trad/ice climber it is a silly thing to own...

I can see where it makes sense to a climber who sport climbs 95% of the time on 1 pitch sport routes... it really is quick and easy to have some redundancy while cleaning an anchor in preparation to be lowered off...

Most of us in these forums are not 95% sport climbers, so I can understand the PAS hate... but it makes sense for a lot of climbers out there...

I just hate seeing em’ on multi-pitch routes where using the rope is 10000000% better....
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sneoh

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Re: Anchor Clipping, Direct Anchor Belays: Will Gadd
« Reply #31 on: September 05, 2013, 02:45:37 PM »

I can see where it makes sense to a climber who sport climbs 95% of the time on 1 pitch sport routes... it really is quick and easy to have some redundancy while cleaning an anchor in preparation to be lowered off...
I resemble that remanrk being a 95% sport climber the last number of years.  :)

Yet, no, I do not have a PAS.  The high cost is one thing but the other is what do I clip the single locker to?  A single bolt/hanger while I untie from my rope?  Where's the redundancy in that?  Even with chain/cable equalized anchors, I am not going to clip the PAS's locker into the ring/links/biners through which I have to thread the rope!  That is going to cause a cluster f&*#.  So I use either two nylon slings hitched to my harness or one sling and one LONG draw to secure myself to two points of the anchor while I untie and clean.  This system has worked well for me with redundancy tho it is slower than using the PAS and its single locker.  Multi-pitch sport/mixed?  Always use the rope at the belay stations!
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"You have to decide to do a flag, where you can broke your vertebrae or a barn door depending of your pro" - the poster formerly known as Champ

strandman

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Re: Anchor Clipping, Direct Anchor Belays: Will Gadd
« Reply #32 on: September 05, 2013, 03:00:24 PM »

DMan- did we just agree on something ?? ;D it must be my meds
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pappy

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Re: Anchor Clipping, Direct Anchor Belays: Will Gadd
« Reply #33 on: September 05, 2013, 04:25:03 PM »

I'm really going to show my age--what the hell is a PAS? You mean I have to spread my dum-dum (er, Gri-Gri) hate across another useless POS?
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DLottmann

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Re: Anchor Clipping, Direct Anchor Belays: Will Gadd
« Reply #34 on: September 05, 2013, 04:33:42 PM »

Pappy, “Personal Anchor System”, yup, cheezy as hell for trad climbing

Sneoh, the image on the packaging of a PAS shows two lockers being used at bolted stations... because there are so many loops you can use 2 lockers and while it is not equalized it limits extension...

Something like this:



we are talking just body weight here while a sport climber rigs to lower or rap.... so it is a simple system that is probably just as quick as your two sling method, but slightly more adjustable...
« Last Edit: September 05, 2013, 04:39:17 PM by DMan »
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DLottmann

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Re: Anchor Clipping, Direct Anchor Belays: Will Gadd
« Reply #35 on: September 05, 2013, 04:41:31 PM »

So Will is making some adjustments to his previous post:

http://willgadd.com/anchor-clipping-2/

This I had suggested earlier and I think is probably the best option if not belaying off the anchor and a high fall factor fall is somewhat possible:

"Consider lowering the belayer 3M or so down below the anchor and clipping the focal point of the anchor with the leader’s rope. This gets rid of a factor-two fall, and the belayer is unlikely to be yanked that far up unless they are really light compared to the climber."
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sneoh

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Re: Anchor Clipping, Direct Anchor Belays: Will Gadd
« Reply #36 on: September 05, 2013, 04:43:06 PM »

OK, thanks, DMan.  That makes more sense. 
BUT in practice, I have seen people just use the single locker and forego the redundancy (albeit unequalized) shown in the pic.
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strandman

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Re: Anchor Clipping, Direct Anchor Belays: Will Gadd
« Reply #37 on: September 05, 2013, 04:52:41 PM »

Is it me ? or does that photo scare anyone else ????
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sneoh

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Re: Anchor Clipping, Direct Anchor Belays: Will Gadd
« Reply #38 on: September 05, 2013, 05:01:37 PM »

From Will -
"When I’m using a Gri Gri so it won’t matter if the belayer get slammed into a wall feature or whatever, the rope still stop even if the belayer is maimed. Maybe., and Petzl does say this is OK. But one of the best ways to make a Gri-Gri feed is to block the lever down, which is what will happen if the fall pulls the Gri Gri hard into the first piece as will will likely happen with a high-load fall. No, definitely don’t clip the (anchor as the) first piece if you’re using a Gri Gri! Unless you’re tied down.."

Interesting.  I recently witnessed a light woman catch her much heavier partner falling off a very steep climb (very little friction).  She was not tied down (this is the gym after all).  She was belaying with a Gri-Gri.  She got pulled all the way up to the 1st draw.  Then, her abdomen, harness, Gri-Gri, the whole nine yards got jammed into the rope biner of the draw resulting in the Gri Gri's cam having no room to pivot up to lock the rope.  She eventually put on the death grip with her brake hand and prevented her partner from decking out.  But it did take her half (?) a second to figure out what was happening.  And when both of them stopped moving, she was hgher off the floor than her partner (he had fallen past her in other words). 
She was quite shaken up mentally by the whole affair.  I had my eyes opened by the incident.  So, yes, there is good reason for Will to write the above!
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"You have to decide to do a flag, where you can broke your vertebrae or a barn door depending of your pro" - the poster formerly known as Champ

pappy

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Re: Anchor Clipping, Direct Anchor Belays: Will Gadd
« Reply #39 on: September 05, 2013, 07:47:24 PM »

Pappy, “Personal Anchor System”, yup, cheezy as hell for trad climbing


Oh for shit's sake. So it's not enough to wind up at the belay with a rope and (presumably) a selection of biners, slings, and/or draws, we need to buy a specific...thing...dedicated to anchoring and have a snazzy acronym for it. No, climbers are not at all susceptible to marketing...
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DLottmann

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Re: Anchor Clipping, Direct Anchor Belays: Will Gadd
« Reply #40 on: September 05, 2013, 11:05:54 PM »

But Pappy, what can we do with just a rope? Clove what? Never heard of it... <end sarcasm>
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lucky luke

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Re: Anchor Clipping, Direct Anchor Belays: Will Gadd
« Reply #41 on: September 05, 2013, 11:23:38 PM »

Yes, one should master the hand grip before moving on to munters and ATC's.

Ha! ha! ha!
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lucky luke

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Re: Anchor Clipping, Direct Anchor Belays: Will Gadd
« Reply #42 on: September 05, 2013, 11:35:13 PM »

Oh for shit's sake. So it's not enough to wind up at the belay with a rope and (presumably) a selection of biners, slings, and/or draws, we need to buy a specific...thing...dedicated to anchoring and have a snazzy acronym for it. No, climbers are not at all susceptible to marketing...

selection of biners, slings...Papy!!! you have your PAS and you never know it!!!

well, you have to know if the biners are yours. if it is the biners of your partner. Gees, you are  in trouble man. It is IAS, impersonal anchoring system. In that case, they will call you a NKT.

Not knowing theory

if you fall it is all your fault...it is because you used the PAS of an other.



 

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frik

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Re: Anchor Clipping, Direct Anchor Belays: Will Gadd
« Reply #43 on: September 06, 2013, 09:04:52 AM »

To paraphrase Old man's Ghost; Regarding the PAS - that's the most retarded thing i've ever seen.
People actually spend their own money for that?
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Jeff

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Re: Anchor Clipping, Direct Anchor Belays: Will Gadd
« Reply #44 on: September 06, 2013, 09:08:25 AM »

Oh for shit's sake. So it's not enough to wind up at the belay with a rope and (presumably) a selection of biners, slings, and/or draws, we need to buy a specific...thing...dedicated to anchoring and have a snazzy acronym for it. No, climbers are not at all susceptible to marketing...

selection of biners, slings...Papy!!! you have your PAS and you never know it!!!

well, you have to know if the biners are yours. if it is the biners of your partner. Gees, you are  in trouble man. It is IAS, impersonal anchoring system. In that case, they will call you a NKT.

Not knowing theory

if you fall it is all your fault...it is because you used the PAS of an other.



Humor points for Luke ;D
« Last Edit: September 06, 2013, 09:10:07 AM by Jeff »
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