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Author Topic: am I safe?  (Read 1042 times)

lucky luke

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am I safe?
« on: September 10, 2013, 01:59:07 PM »

I was climbing with a beginner and, as I led, he pull on the road and I was closed to fall by is act. I climb with people who want to absolutely try there PAS and don't know a shit on the strength of the anchor, and there is many other way

One day I red a text on how to choose a partner that you met on the road. It was wrote; look to his equipment, if it is brand new shinning, don't climb with him because he didn't used it often. I also heard a lot of climber who do 5.10 in a gym, talking about that part of equipment and the other very brilliantly...as and old far will say little and make a lot of hesitation on every thing. For me, as much some one describe the good or bad way to use a grigri, as much I am afraid to climb with him.

Am I safe? what is  important when you choose a partner and how can you know is limit?
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kenreville

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Re: am I safe?
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2013, 03:20:28 PM »

Go easy Beefy- he means well.

Pretty farkin funny post anyway.....
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SA

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Re: am I safe?
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2013, 05:30:20 PM »

Olbeefy,

Lucky Luke has posted here for years, and he is from Quebec. I assure you his climbing skills are quite good.
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xcrag_corex

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Re: am I safe?
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2013, 06:10:56 PM »

Lucky Luke,
     I wouldn't judge a climber by his gear.. People do get new gear and some people are neurotic about replacing worn gear. I would more so go by the way the climber carries them self. Go on an easy route well within your range. Heck make them take the t pitch so you could judge them... But as a side note: they may be judging you also. Communication is key. If you get a bad vibe give them pointers. Some beginners try to jump head first in to impress the more experienced climber. Mentor them.... When you bring their level of safety up that's when you climb safe. If they are showing signs of complication, as the experienced leader it's your responsibility to bring it back to a safe level..... Maybe start with a TR day with a new partner.
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Pete Jackson

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Re: am I safe?
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2013, 06:30:12 PM »

Am I safe? what is  important when you choose a partner and how can you know is limit?

I think it's a really good question that you pose here. It's always going to be a little bit of a roll of the dice to trust another person, especially with your life and safety. I've run a meetup group in Rumney for a couple of years, with a focus on educating outdoor newbies on safe and sustainable practices. I can tell you that while I have been a belayer for a lot of the folks who show up, I've taken a belay from very few of the people I've met this way. 

What is important to me when choosing a partner is whether I believe they are attentive and skilled enough to be trusted with my life. Observing them while they climb with others is one great way I evaluate whether to rope up with them. One can also determine a lot from their behavior on the ground.

Are they organized and efficient with their gear?
Do they seem to have a system or a method they use to pack in and ready their gear?
Do they object or respond with bravado to me wanting to inspect and double check their gear? Better still, do they return the favor?
Are they thoughtful about the climb we're about to undertake, evaluating it for risk? Or are they more concerned with getting pumped up to climb?

I look to determine all of these things in a relatively safe single pitch sport environment before considering multipitch, trad, or alpine with them. Interestingly enough, there are folks whom I'd trust for a sport belay who I'd never go ice climbing with. So clearly it's an analog, sliding scale of comfort.

It's not always practical to observe another climber for a long enough time to determine whether you are comfortable with them before climbing. If everyone acted this way, nobody would be climbing :). However, once I had kids, I decided that I'd rather pass up a day in the hills than go up there with someone I don't trust.
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lucky luke

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Re: am I safe?
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2013, 07:05:39 PM »

Lucky Luke,
     I wouldn't judge a climber by his gear.. People do get new gear and some people are neurotic about replacing worn gear. I would more so go by the way the climber carries them self. Go on an easy route well within your range. Heck make them take the t pitch so you could judge them... But as a side note: they may be judging you also. Communication is key. If you get a bad vibe give them pointers. Some beginners try to jump head first in to impress the more experienced climber. Mentor them.... When you bring their level of safety up that's when you climb safe. If they are showing signs of complication, as the experienced leader it's your responsibility to bring it back to a safe level..... Maybe start with a TR day with a new partner.

For the gear, it is from and old book. Not my opinion. Still, I always take a look. I used so much my death weight (stopper) that my partner think that they are old, even if I had the for three months. No kink, no rust.

It is true that some beginner try to jump head first to impress more experienced climber. Experience leader in a group...Who told that? If a young dude can climb a 5.11 in sport in his second day and a trad leader climb 5.8, how can I judge that I am the more experience leader? His he supposed to wait to learn or change leader? And how can I told him that climbing is dangerous when all his friend told him that there is no difference between sport and trad???

An other question is when do I ask too much to my partner. As I used to state, I found default when I am looking myself in a mirror, as I look at my partner, it will be worst. 
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Pete Jackson

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Re: am I safe?
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2013, 07:54:09 PM »

I climb with people who want to absolutely try there PAS and don't know a shit on the strength of the anchor, and there is many other way

Not to get all frothy again, but if I were climbing a multi-pitch trad route and my partner brought a PAS, we wouldn't leave the ground. :)
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sneoh

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Re: am I safe?
« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2013, 07:59:35 PM »

IMO finding a competent, safe partner is not the greater challenge.  It is the keeping of a variety of partners over the years that is harder to do.  I have found that partnerships only last if both parties have similar interests and value outside of climbing.
I have been incredibly blessed with many good, long term partners over the years, of both genders.  And countless good memories to reflect on.
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lucky luke

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Re: am I safe?
« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2013, 08:13:17 PM »

Not to get all frothy again, but if I were climbing a multi-pitch trad route and my partner brought a PAS, we wouldn't leave the ground. :)

If he know the limit of the PAS and don't used it mechanicaly without understanding. It is death weight, but it could be safe...and it could save some pain in your back. I think that it is a version of what the guide use to belay two client...without the knowledge. One device do all. I prefer someone who belay from the harnest as the belay is more personal...as you feel all movement of your partner.

I like, when I am the leader, to be able to verify every thing in a glance. And try to do the same as I am not the leader. 
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DLottmann

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Re: am I safe?
« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2013, 10:56:35 PM »

“Death weight”... “belay from the waist is more personal”....

You can not make this shit up... my Munter is very personal :)
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sneoh

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Re: am I safe?
« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2013, 11:02:53 PM »

Deadweight?
Don't you be touching my Munter!  Sounds kinky doesn't it? :)
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"You have to decide to do a flag, where you can broke your vertebrae or a barn door depending of your pro" - the poster formerly known as Champ

DLottmann

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Re: am I safe?
« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2013, 11:05:13 PM »

Deadweight?
Don't you be touching my Munter!  Sounds kinky doesn't it? :)

 >:( Munters don’t kink ropes, bad belayer’s kink rope!  >:(

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Pete Jackson

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Re: am I safe?
« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2013, 11:07:41 PM »

I prefer someone who belay from the harnest as the belay is more personal...as you feel all movement of your partner.

On its surface, that sounds like it might be true. But: if you feel your partner's movement on your harness (heh), aren't you short-roping them? I've found that I have a better sense for when to take up rope when I have the belay on the anchor: my guide hand in that case is way further down the climber's side of the rope.
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DLottmann

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Re: am I safe?
« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2013, 11:32:05 PM »

I prefer someone who belay from the harnest as the belay is more personal...as you feel all movement of your partner.

On its surface, that sounds like it might be true. But: if you feel your partner's movement on your harness (heh), aren't you short-roping them? I've found that I have a better sense for when to take up rope when I have the belay on the anchor: my guide hand in that case is way further down the climber's side of the rope.

You’re new here, so I’ll help you out.

Do NOT try using logic with LL. It will back-fire, I promise.
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SA

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Re: am I safe?
« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2013, 08:14:38 AM »

I will relate a true story, which demonstrates the DANGER of not knowing your partner. After this incident, I tend to look a little closer before having anyone belay me--even on a top rope.

Maybe 10 years ago, I stopped by Crow Hill, for a little workout. There was a rope already setup on Crowmagnon, by a group from MIT. I got much of my early mentoring from MIT guys, and while chatting with these guys, I asked if someone would give me a belay. A guy stepped up, and I did ask him if he was familiar with belaying, ( he was using an ATC). He assured me that he was experienced.

I climbed up and after reaching the top, something in my mind told me that I better play it safe, and down climb, as far as possible. I often do this anyway, just for the extra work out. I was about 15 feet off the ground, near the bolt, and I asked the guy if he was ready, before jumping off.

He said O.K. and when I jumped off, I went crashing down to the ground-HARD. I really was quite shocked, and couldn't understand what happened. Without even getting up--- I looked up at him and asked what happened. He replied, " it burnt my hands". The guy completely let go of the rope!!!!????

In hindsight, I really ought to have reamed him out, since obviously, if I hadn't down-climbed the route, I wouldn't be here to tell this story. I thought MIT people were smart, or at least had some BRAINS! I didn't even reply to him.

I hope this guy reflected on his actions that day, and wish he was reading this now--as well. It still pisses me off, every time I think about it--which is rarely.
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