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[DLottmann]

It's amazing how much trust climbers will put into complete strangers on an almost daily basis.

I routinely get lowered by Day 1 climbers but I keep my hand on the other side until I can make solid eye contact, and I always ask that they put BOTH hands on the brake strand to lower me... the "burnt hand" was obviously from the belayer trying to stop your descent with his non-brake hand...

With tube style belay devices there is no reason in the world not to have BOTH hands on the brake during lowers...

[Admin Al]

let's keep this a "civil" conversation folks...

[steve weitzler]

I would tell you what my first priorities are in a climbing partner but you guys would probably roast for that!!

[Pete Jackson]

He said O.K. and when I jumped off, I went crashing down to the ground-HARD. I really was quite shocked, and couldn't understand what happened. Without even getting up--- I looked up at him and asked what happened. He replied, " it burnt my hands". The guy completely let go of the rope!!!!?

That is scary. Glad you are here to tell the tale.

My best friend and first climbing partner (Bob) moved to Colorado and had a visit from a mutual friend of ours who shall remain nameless. There were climbing somewhere near Ft Collins, when Bob hucked off and took what should have been a 10 foot lead fall. His inexperienced belayer had his brake hand off the rope, and Bob ended up taking a 40-footer. When he stopped falling, he was about 6 feet off the ground and eye-to-eye with his belayer, who had grabbed the lead-strand with both hands to arrest the fall.

The belayer, whom I have roped up with many times since, has never made that mistake again. He got a second chance because we're all very close friends. I suspect in a different situation or had the outcome involved injury, he'd have never climbed again. 

If there is a lesson here it is unclear. I'd say even when you think you know someone well, you have to pay attention to their skill level. Also, folks do learn lessons the hard way and sometimes deserve another chance, after some proper training

Be careful out there!

[strandman]

I generally agree Pete, i know people who couldn't belay for shit and now are OK. Maybe the early 'training" they got sucked.

Another thought.. if the griGri didn't exist , would more or less people be dead ?  more ??

[DLottmann]

...
Another thought.. if the griGri didn't exist , would more or less people be dead ?  more ??

If anything I think more people get dropped by GriGris than any other device. Since most of these happen in padded gyms we don't hear about them as much as we should. I definitely don't think that GriGri = safer, except for that whole "but if you belayer gets knocked out argument".... how many of you have had an unconscious belayer?

[strandman]

I  had a semi conscious belayer.. but it was very late on the Nose

[Pete Jackson]

Another thought.. if the griGri didn't exist , would more or less people be dead ?  more ??

If I had a nickel for every time I saw someone with their brake hand off a GriGri, who shrugged off a correction in technique with "but I have them on a gri-gri", then I'd have enough dough to buy all of y'all a PAS.

I definitely think there is an epidemic of uninformed use and inadequate practice.

But, I'm not sure whether it'd add up to more injury. Hard to say.

You’re new here, so I’ll help you out.

Do NOT try using logic with LL. It will back-fire, I promise.

I tried and tried to come up with an X-position joke. Ah well. One day I'll learn.

[DLottmann]

...then I'd have enough dough to buy all of y'all a PAS...

Zing!

[lucky luke]

On its surface, that sounds like it might be true. But: if you feel your partner's movement on your harness (heh), aren't you short-roping them? I've found that I have a better sense for when to take up rope when I have the belay on the anchor: my guide hand in that case is way further down the climber's side of the rope.

If your guide hand is on the rope, you will have problem to gave rope as your partner take a look and go back to his rest. If you are a guide, it is not a problem because it is your job to be aware of your client. For many no guide, first experiences (I climb 24 multi pitch a year as average) climber, they don't even know how to do a move and they still use the long term knowledge of a guide, thinking that they are as experiency as them.

I am not sure if it is safe. Even if this is better than trying to get out of the rope as your partner can not do the move and help him or her to climb to the anchor. I agree that with bolt, but anyu think less than a bolt is more than a problem in many time.