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[punxnotdead]

Jumping Jesus on a Pogo Stick! Who gives a flying F()@&

[frik]

.....three reasons to ignore lucky........although this thread is about the 50th

[lucky luke]

.....three reasons [...]although this thread is about the 50th

It is because you don't understand two or three differences. First, trad is no more an ethic superior to the other, it is just a kind of practice where and advance climber have the skill to onsight 5.9 - 5.10. So, a 5.9 climber on trad is not a beginer. In boulder he is a beginer. And if an hightball boluder use what he had learned to climb a high ball boulder in a trad route...we are able to see many mistake that we can associate with the kind of accident that we saw actually in north america.

Second, we, me and also other person, define path to be a trad climber, and path to be a boulder climber and path to be a sport climber and path to be an aid climber.

The overall conclusion is that if we want that people choose which path they want, we must teach the difference between each ethic and the goal.

This is different than just saying that it is different.

[krankonthis]

you have a very antiquated view of climbing luke. people do it all these days.  I don't define myself In one disciple of climbing. I go sport, trad, bouldering, ice and alpine  climbing and know a lot of people that do the same.  lots of climbers are moving beyond your definitions of climbing, what I think I understand them as, your writing is very hard to read and into just being climbers. 
Sport and bouldering get me strong for trad climbing and I can go back to those when I have had enough of scaring myself. 
I also bouldered way more in the beginning of my climbing career and have done fine as a trad climber. Yes there were some sketchy times but I go through them. Its very easy to judge others beginning's and not look to your own beginning's.
sam bendroth 

[strandman]

No comment

[sneoh]

Well written, Sam.

[lucky luke]

I don't define myself In one disciple of climbing. I go sport, trad, bouldering, ice and alpine  climbing [...] your writing is very hard to read and into just being climbers.

I am a biologist, I do statistic, physic for photosynthesis, chemical for the nutrition, etc. But I am a biologist.

Doing many aspect of a sport and describing yourself as if you are doing one sport is a disciple of one kind of climbing: a jack of all trade.

I practice trad 60 percent of the time, weight lift 20 percent, sport 20percent. I am a trad climber. Not a disciple of one kind of climbing.

If someone do 60 percent of bouldering, 30 of sport and 10 of trad, I consider that the climber do bouldering. He is not going to be a jack of all trade, but a very high performance V-8 climber.

I am practically never scare in a route (5.10 onsight). If a boulder guy came an say: "have had enough of scaring myself." I will say that it is normal. You are a boulder climber, not a trad climber. You don't have all the knowledge. You can't even make the distinction between your kind of practice and the ethic that you develop and the kind of practice that I do and the ethic of many generation before you. It is not a barrier language, it is your mind conception.

In this thread, I just wrote three reasons to not bouldering before doing trad. You don't even discuss one of those reason. Just saying that you are good because you are doing a v-6 problem after many try like a gymnast on parallel bar and that you are scare because you have a lack of knowledge in trad. What prove my point 
 

[DMan]

Well said Sam.

LL, I don’t think Sam needs to respond point by point to your three “reasons” considering they are overly subjective reasons to begin with.

I think Sam did ok starting out with “bouldering before doing trad”, which is what your whole thread topic is about.

http://www.google.com/search?q=sam+bendroth&client=safari&rls=en&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=v_ByUpqTJMW64AOe3IHQBA&ved=0CCsQsAQ&biw=1024&bih=684

[lucky luke]

I think Sam did ok starting out with “bouldering before doing trad”, which is what your whole thread topic is about.

Imagine how good he would have been if he learned trad before doing bouldering...

Maybe my English is bad,  but I know to read. He said: "Sport and bouldering get me strong for trad climbing and I can go back to those when I have had enough of scaring myself."

He learned to do movement and after that had a lack of knowledge on trad...the reason why he his scare. And I gave three reason why he his scare. Those reason are objective. Learning how to fall is not subjective but a technique as important as a movement.

One Chinese women on the Everest was not able to fix her crampon on there boots. A photo of her close to the summit is cool, but doesn't prove any think. We have a testimony of Sam.

[DMan]

Imagine how good he would have been if he learned trad before doing bouldering...

Ya, cause leading 5.13 trad isn’t really that good is it? If only he didn’t boulder first LOL.

Sam’s quite modest to boost of his achievements but a quick google search would enlighten you.

http://krankonthis.blogspot.com/

http://mattmccormickclimbing.blogspot.com/2012/06/highway-61.html

Your black & white view of climbing is really sad.

[sneoh]

I am practically never scare in a route (5.10 onsight).

Bold words indeed. They might come back to haunt you one day, Champ.
You got to know when to "fold your cards".  I think you are out matched on this one, buddy.

[strandman]

May have to  edit this one Al-

LL you are full of shit !!! I am convinced you know little about actual climbing....WOW ! you can onsite 5.10 without getting scared

BIG FUCKING DEAL

[DGoguen]

Hey Jacques
I've got to tell you. If all the young climbers were like Sam you wouldn't have much to worry about. Well rounded, solid, and mindfull of those who came before yet moving forward.

[Pete Jackson]

The overall conclusion is that if we want that people choose which path they want, we must teach the difference between each ethic and the goal.

Why? Shouldn't we let people learn for themselves?

It took me 20 years to figure out what kind of climber I am. Why not let newcomers enjoy the same journey?

[lucky luke]

The overall conclusion is that if we want that people choose which path they want, we must teach the difference between each ethic and the goal.

Why? Shouldn't we let people learn for themselves?

Why? shouldn't we let people choose the ethic they want for themselves?

I know guy, working a route for days, and finally doing a 5.13. After, they send it with the use of cam. Big deal. Go in a gym, try parallel bar, train a routine many time...and you will be able to do complex move. This is the same as climbing a 5.13 after many repetition. It could be fun, you could like it. But I don't like it. I prefer to learn like jackson 20 years ago when sport doesn't exist. And I am pretty sure that you don't learn by yourself, but with old climber with a strong trad ethic.

This is call institutionalization. The way to bring all sport at the same level of difficulty in a way that every body will think that he his good. It is done to have more client by teaching in school the sport. For the parent, the risk is good. Very low danger in a gym, and the majority of the climber are scare to climb in remote area. So, the people stay in the kindergarden (bolt lader) manage by the good teacher. The final goal is to ban all traditional climbing technique, to create one ethic. 

Notice that I can be scare in a cliff. I was climbing with a boulder climber and, as I was doing a movement, he pull on the rope, taking me off stance practically. I was scare because the other climber, not too bad, was a danger on himself.