Author Topic: three reasons to not bouldering before doing trad  (Read 3288 times)

DLottmann

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Re: three reasons to not bouldering before doing trad
« Reply #90 on: November 06, 2013, 10:26:36 AM »
There is some concern over girth-hitching skinny dyneema slings to thicker nylon slings, like belay loops. The issue lies in the fact that a girth-hitch can create a 2:1 pulley on itself when orientated so that the material "doubles back" on itself. It is easier for this to happen with a skinny tight dynemma sling on a thicker nylon sling. The tie-in point of a harness is preferred as it is re-inforced for nylon/nylon and dyneema/nylon wear. Petzl would go so far as to say the belay loop should ONLY see metal. Almost all there harnesses have diagrams on the belay loop illustrating this.

Yes, it is a bit more of a hassle to girth hitch through the tie-in point than the belay loop, but it is what the harness manufactures suggest.

I'll girth my belay loop on occasion (in winter, gloves on, cold hands), but I'll use a normal size nylon sling. I wouldn't do it every day though.

Offline JBrochu

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Re: three reasons to not bouldering before doing trad
« Reply #91 on: November 06, 2013, 10:34:15 AM »
How do you girth hitch to your tie-in point when you're rappelling? Or in other words what do you do for rappelling?

Also, is the risk with skinny dyneema doubling back only under strong forces or are you talking about the kind of force generated just leaning back on the anchor?

I might just get rid of all my skinny slings. Too many rules to remember and it's harshing my mellow.
Have a quiche, now, or maybe a tort.  You deserve it!
-bristolpipe

I like to keep things simple, even if it's faaaken painful and miserable.
-Stoney Middleton

This is grain, which any fool can eat, but for which the Lord intended a more divine means of consumption.
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Offline JBrochu

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Re: three reasons to not bouldering before doing trad
« Reply #92 on: November 06, 2013, 10:39:00 AM »
Jeezuz Christos Brochu...

With you, Luke's got himself a "70 fish day"..... time to head for port.


Ha ha yeah he got me that time lolz
Have a quiche, now, or maybe a tort.  You deserve it!
-bristolpipe

I like to keep things simple, even if it's faaaken painful and miserable.
-Stoney Middleton

This is grain, which any fool can eat, but for which the Lord intended a more divine means of consumption.
-Friar Tuck

DLottmann

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Re: three reasons to not bouldering before doing trad
« Reply #93 on: November 06, 2013, 11:00:15 AM »
How do you girth hitch to your tie-in point when you're rappelling? Or in other words what do you do for rappelling?

Also, is the risk with skinny dyneema doubling back only under strong forces or are you talking about the kind of force generated just leaning back on the anchor?

I might just get rid of all my skinny slings. Too many rules to remember and it's harshing my mellow.

I more often than not girth hitch a double length nylon sling through my tie-in point to extend my belay device away from me and to make it easier to transition to a new station. I tie a over-hand about 1/4 of the way up the double length to create a smaller loop where my rappel device sits. The longer tail facilitates transferring to a new station. I like having the device a bit further a way from my so I can use a auto-block off my belay loop, allowing me to go hands free mid-rappel to sort the rope or whatever...

As for your second question, I'm talking about the kind of unexpected forces that could crop up, not body weight. Something weird happened with some girth-hitched dyneema slings that caused a fatality out west a year or two ago... i don't have the details anymore but it was enough to get me to stop girthhitching dyneema.

Everyone as to decide for themselves, but I'll say this about dyneema.

It is awesome for creating alpine draws. And that is ALL I use it for these days. It's been proven you should never "knot" dyneema like you can nylon, so why bother girth-hitching it?

If I had money I would own 10 dyneema shoulder length slings outfitted with 20 Petzl Ange S carabiners...

Offline sneoh

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Re: three reasons to not bouldering before doing trad
« Reply #94 on: November 06, 2013, 11:01:54 AM »
OK, DMan, thanks for elaborating in terms most people can relate to and understand.
Personally, I try not to move around too much once I tie myself in but I can see people doing that.

"You have to decide to do a flag, where you can broke your vertebrae or a barn door depending of your pro" - the poster formerly known as Champ

Offline sneoh

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Re: three reasons to not bouldering before doing trad
« Reply #95 on: November 06, 2013, 11:05:56 AM »
I only use nylon 2- and 3-footers now, and have been the past two years.  I junk the nylon ones sooner but it hurts less doing so :)
I made the switch not for financial reasons though.

DMan, watch for Petzl sale at Karst Sports in the month of Dec.  I bought quite a bit of Petzl stuff from them last Dec.

"You have to decide to do a flag, where you can broke your vertebrae or a barn door depending of your pro" - the poster formerly known as Champ

Offline JBrochu

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Re: three reasons to not bouldering before doing trad
« Reply #96 on: November 06, 2013, 11:17:26 AM »

I more often than not girth hitch a double length nylon sling through my tie-in point to extend my belay device away from me and to make it easier to transition to a new station. I tie a over-hand about 1/4 of the way up the double length to create a smaller loop where my rappel device sits. The longer tail facilitates transferring to a new station. I like having the device a bit further a way from my so I can use a auto-block off my belay loop, allowing me to go hands free mid-rappel to sort the rope or whatever...

Ok that makes sense. I was confusing tie-in point with the loop in the rope when you tie-in to your harness. I've always used diaper style harnesses and forgot that modern harnesses all have a distinct tie-in point sewn into them.
Have a quiche, now, or maybe a tort.  You deserve it!
-bristolpipe

I like to keep things simple, even if it's faaaken painful and miserable.
-Stoney Middleton

This is grain, which any fool can eat, but for which the Lord intended a more divine means of consumption.
-Friar Tuck

DLottmann

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Re: three reasons to not bouldering before doing trad
« Reply #97 on: November 06, 2013, 11:24:07 AM »
No prob Sneoh. I actually do like talking about this stuff when it can be civil and engaging. Thanks for the tip on the Petzl sale, but I have pro-deal and I still can't afford what I want  :P


Offline steve weitzler

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Re: three reasons to not bouldering before doing trad
« Reply #98 on: November 06, 2013, 01:12:52 PM »
Guys, don't fall then you don't have to worry about all this technical bullshit!!! :P :P

DLottmann

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Re: three reasons to not bouldering before doing trad
« Reply #99 on: November 06, 2013, 01:16:16 PM »
Guys, don't fall then you don't have to worry about all this technical bullshit!!! :P :P

That's why I like climbing without a rope... too complicated ;)

Offline steve weitzler

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Re: three reasons to not bouldering before doing trad
« Reply #100 on: November 06, 2013, 03:01:18 PM »
I agree.  When things get too complicated it ceases to be fun.

Offline lucky luke

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Re: three reasons to not bouldering before doing trad
« Reply #101 on: November 06, 2013, 04:00:53 PM »
bouldering i don't use any slings....

A+

Offline lucky luke

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Re: three reasons to not bouldering before doing trad
« Reply #102 on: November 06, 2013, 05:05:26 PM »
I agree.  When things get too complicated it ceases to be fun.

last winter an accident happen. Things have been complicated in the wild. The climber died. I wrote talking of some element of safety like the one of knowing the rope and what happen during a fall. A relative was insult and I was advise by the administrator that it was not the appropriate moment to discuss safety.

here an example about knowing the theory. In the pass, many people use figure eight to belay, even if it is wrote in the instruction of the device that it was not for belaying. So, the information gave by the company and the information gave by guy like the one who wrote on the forum, bring many people to use the figure eight every where (today, it is the atc).

On a forum, it is time to discuss about safety and gave as much information that we can, so the people will be able to take there own decision. If you don't know the theory, and just throw advice without being able to justify it, always remember that the guy who will follow your advice can died, and he can be one close to you.

keep it simple, doesn't mean keep it easy: don't work to understand the theory. Some climber gather the theory by practice, climbing and guiding every day, and they are very good. some other had a theorical approach. But safety is a lot of job. The easy way is to follow advice without understanding, but there is a risk.

Offline steve weitzler

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Re: three reasons to not bouldering before doing trad
« Reply #103 on: November 06, 2013, 08:31:33 PM »
Wow!!! I'm feeling pretty exclusive.  LL is quoting me not himself. :) :) :)

Offline eyebolter

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Re: three reasons to not bouldering before doing trad
« Reply #104 on: November 06, 2013, 08:57:36 PM »

bouldering i don't use any slings....

I use them all the time.  Toprope the piss out of it, then boulder it like a hero.   How do you think I can still do highballs at 52?