I know that we are going from a society of prevention to a society of precaution. That mean that before we talk about recommendation to be safe and today some of you talk about interdiction to do some thing. As those guy want the interdiction to do trad...they denied every thing and insult honest climber. I don't right this distinction for them and I am not going to answer at there sarcasm. You can agree or disagree on some point and I like to discuss it with you.