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[lucky luke]

In accident in north America, they describe a kind of accident that happen because what you learned previously is good. For example, if you learn sport climbing and you go for it on a bolt, you will think that it will work if you do the same with a stopper. 

"The familiarity heuristic is the tendency to believe that our behavior is correct to the extent that we will have done it before (McCammon, 2002)

More precisely, on stressful situation the brain can not manage all the information that he received when you are leading trad. The load is too high as in this example: "Consider the difference between having to study a subject in one's native language versus trying to study a subject in a foreign language. The cognitive load is much higher in the second instance because the brain must work to translate the language while simultaneously trying to understand the new information."

As we lead in trad, we have to think about the fall and possible injury, rope management, placing gear, resting, finding the move and gave the nerve influx to the muscle. In sport, we have to think at clipping bolt, finding the move and gave the nerve influx. Many times, we don't have to think about route finding as the next bolt show us the way.

Do you know some behavior that we think that is correct because we do it before?

I think that when we rappelling in trad, we let the first climber going down on the system and after we rap on the only biner (biner is ordinarly clip to a sling, not a bolt) that we left on the route. That comportment is similar to those of the guy who felt at rumney. Because in a rappelling station we use just one biner, we think that we can do that on any route. 

[DGoguen]

Do you know some behavior that we think that is correct because we do it before?

Yes, oversimplifying sport climbing while over complicating trad climbing comes to mind.

[strandman]

"Everything should be tried at least twice"--- Lincoln Sheppard

and from another Australian;

"Everyday is the same when your a fucking idiot"--Geoff Weigand

[lucky luke]

"The familiarity heuristic is the tendency to believe that our behavior is correct to the extent that we will have done it before (McCammon, 2002)

Here is the text of McCammon: http://www.snowpit.com/articles/traps%20reprint.pdf It is a paper on avalanche study.

Maybe it need more reading, but it is some thing that I tried to find for many years. One thing I note is that:"we have seen that certain avalanche victims exposed themselves to more hazard indicators when specific heuristic cues were present." For example, looking at the avy post to climb a route. Those heuristic cues is, for me, very important in learning sport and it work most of the time, leaving the climber to do more complicate task as leading 5.12. In trad it is more important to be under stress with a guide and to develop a way to be able to take sound decision, without heuristic cues. although, the rules of thumb is often better than no action at all.

[JBrochu]

Thread saver...

[strandman]

Is that the chic who was in the fixed chair ?

[tinker]

^ I think x position would be called for here?  Between both these posts my brain reached capacity..........

[DLottmann]

McCammon has some great stuff.

Here’s a quote for you LL:

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.” -Einstein

As in, posting the same over analytic thing and expecting the readers here to react differently.

I guess us reading and responding could fall under the same thing...

That chick is way too top heavy for serious sport climbing.

[JBrochu]

Here’s a quote for you LL:

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.” -Einstein

That chick is way too top heavy for serious sport climbing.

I only go for the trad chicks...

Edit: image of bottom heavy chick apparently just got killed from hosting site. 

[strandman]

must have been a bouldering babe.. sit down starts

[JBrochu]

 

[sneoh]

That chick is way too top heavy for serious sport climbing.

Tell that to Bobbi Bensman.  Right in Strand's neck of the woods.  Oh, oh.

[strandman]

verm used to call her Booby.."she went from 13D to 36C for $6K"

[lucky luke]

Yes, oversimplifying sport climbing while over complicating trad climbing comes to mind.

I think that in sport, the equipment is easier to use safely than in trad and, in sport, people can do more complex move. what I am saying is that people automatism that they use in sport for trad.

In the article The author said: "Even though people are capable of making decisions in a thorough and methodical way, it appears that
most of the time they don’t. A growing body of research suggests that people unconsciously use simple rules of
thumb, or heuristics, to navigate the routine complexities of modern life."

One pleasure of trad is to make decision in a thorough and methodical way. To make a decision, we have to see the danger, what happen in a fall, how work the equipment, the movement of climbing, leadership. It is what we found in mountaineering freedom of the hill fifth edition. After that edition, you will see that the theory disappear and you will find more information on the "standard method".

I was in Yosemite climbing the prow. The guy, at the third pitch was very stress. He stopped climbing and took long respiration to keep his calm. It was possible to go higher, but he was completely out of his comfort zone. He red on a book on how to climb half dome (heuristic clue) and he discussed how we should climb it...in two days!!! after bailing in the prow. And many people think like that and many accident happen for that reason.

Link to the article: http://www.snowpit.com/articles/traps%20reprint.pdf