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[DLottmann]

I think we agree on so many levels... I just try to constantly remember I was a newbie once and if I see someone something differently than the way I would have done it I try not to jump to any conclusions. That's all.

[pappy]

Ever rapped with one of these, LL?

No, I used it in emergency situation to lower heavy bag. I used carabiner, it did the same results.

You haven't used a Petzl Variable Rack Descender to rappel 500 meters of continuous 11MM static line in the dark?

You probably shouldn't be teaching rappelling on an ATC then and stick to bolts.

-end sarcasm

Hey, I've rapped on one of those, 520' on 11mm static line in the dark, and I don't know shit. I remember it as more of a terrifying experience than an educational one.

[hobbsj]

Accuse me of any thing, I don"t care...It is superficial and show more frustration than a deep understanding. If you teach how to take decision in complex situation you should act like taking decision on a real problem than trying to insult other,

Wow, there is so much wrong with you making this statement.  I literally almost spit out my coffee.  Luke, you get an A for effort with a lot of this and trying to get people to think of things a bit more, but come on now.

[lucky luke]

I think we agree on so many levels... I just try to constantly remember I was a newbie once

Try to remember that when a newbye pay 300$ to be safe, he realy think that he is safe. Safety is like a check box for them...he learned to rap...check, avalanche...check....superficially, not with a deep understanding. It is when he has bad experiences that he understand that learning climbing is not like a check box. Today, the accident are more relate to those kind of learning.