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Author Topic: society for the protection of nh forests  (Read 1955 times)

strandman

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Re: society for the protection of nh forests
« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2013, 09:36:46 AM »

If you look at some of Ed Webster's historical photos, the tree cutting around cathedral is astounding . At least as a State park it's reasonable now.
The impact of climbing on the enviroment is pretty minimal..it's mostly visual and that can be corrected with colored anchors,etc.Compared to roads,trails and buildings we do OK
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lucky luke

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Re: society for the protection of nh forests
« Reply #16 on: October 28, 2013, 11:32:32 PM »

If you look at some of Ed Webster's historical photos, the tree cutting around cathedral is astounding . At least as a State park it's reasonable now.
The impact of climbing on the enviroment is pretty minimal..

There is people who bring other opinion: "Their must be an expert among us who can speak to what real impact that cleaning of cracks, scrubbing of lichens, and the disruption and annihilation of critters tiny and not so tiny has on New Hampshire's cliffs. As a climber who has done his share of un-earthing new routes, it has been my observation that if the routes do not get climbed it does not take long for mother nature to fill in the cracks and reestablish plants and critters. Most of the original equipment returns. The real question, however, is what rare and fragile plants and animals get annihilated and never come back and become local extirpated or made outright extinct? also, even things grow back, is it the original stuff?" (smartpig).

if we think at the peregrine falcon, at many trees like the one on recompense and pine tree eliminate, the trail at the bottom, the looking area at the top, the noise, the car on the road, bathroom, erosion, etc. Ecology is more the study of evolution of an area than just a picture of what you see one day....and money!

As you can see, bolt is not very important. But the evolution is. At the beginning, bolt was just to protect move that can be dangerous to do other wise, after, we place some bolt anchor to be able to rescue people, if we rescue people, we most place a couple of more bolt to avoid accident, as many people want to climb and just need and other bolt, why don't we bolt all the route except at obvious place where a noob can place a cam...and with time we will have a second rumney:
Quote
Rumney has become such a crowded mess I doubt there is much that can be done to keep the area in good shape. More people just bring more erosion and problems. Many people view Rumney as nothing more than a big outdoor gym IMO and care little about anchors or anything else other than beating the other guy to thier route. I was there last Saturday for the first time this year and it will likely be my last. What a ZOO!
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DLottmann

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Re: society for the protection of nh forests
« Reply #17 on: October 29, 2013, 09:28:47 AM »

It always comes back to bolts with you Lucky Luke. Every. Effin'. Time.
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strandman

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Re: society for the protection of nh forests
« Reply #18 on: October 29, 2013, 09:33:03 AM »

The re-introduction of the Perigrine is,  to a large degree succesful BECAUSE of climbers ! Not just in NH, but all over. 

Once again "the bolt" get over it..i think the highway through Franconia is a bit more of an enviromental impact than bolting The number of trees downed at Whitehorsre for the hotel/golf course  is less than all the trees ever cut at climbing areas in NE.

I had a hand in developing an area off Bear notch called Clear  Cut Crag, 20 years ago. Now it's really re grown and lots of critters..kinda like before..
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DaveR

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Re: society for the protection of nh forests
« Reply #19 on: October 29, 2013, 12:35:16 PM »


As you can see, bolt is not very important. But the evolution is. At the beginning, bolt was just to protect move that can be dangerous to do other wise, after, we place some bolt anchor to be able to rescue people, if we rescue people, we most place a couple of more bolt to avoid accident, as many people want to climb and just need and other bolt, why don't we bolt all the route except at obvious place where a noob can place a cam...and with time we will have a second rumney:
[/quote]

Bolt everything. I'm getting to old to carry a heavy rack of cams and nuts. ;) :P
« Last Edit: October 29, 2013, 12:37:04 PM by DaveR »
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steve weitzler

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Re: society for the protection of nh forests
« Reply #20 on: October 29, 2013, 01:06:06 PM »

Once again "the bolt" get over it..i think the highway through Franconia is a bit more of an enviromental impact than bolting The number of trees downed at Whitehorsre for the hotel/golf course  is less than all the trees ever cut at climbing areas in NE.



Actually John the highway is a good idea.  It gets me to the golf course and the pub at the hotel quicker. Priorities!!!! ;D ;D ;D

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lucky luke

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Re: society for the protection of nh forests
« Reply #21 on: October 29, 2013, 02:08:36 PM »

Once again "the bolt" get over it..i think the highway through Franconia is a bit more of an enviromental impact than bolting The number of trees downed at Whitehorsre for the hotel/golf course  is less than all the trees ever cut at climbing areas in NE.

You scare more than one biologist with that way of thinking. When a land owner read you and how you are careless about it, take the time to go to rumny and see the mess...Do you really think that he want climber on his land. So they don't authorise climbing on their land, nor the bolt...nor the cam.

Environment is a very powerfull lever and, although most of us are environmental friendly, what we heard and look is those people with drill saying that there is no impact and that we must destroy the environment for one or two guy because it is going to growth back after. Or thread be hyjack by picture to make climber impopular or so many example
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JakeDatc

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Re: society for the protection of nh forests
« Reply #22 on: October 29, 2013, 05:07:38 PM »

Quote from: lucky luke
Do you really think that he want climber on his land. So they don't authorise climbing on their land, nor the bolt...nor the cam.


http://www.muirvalley.com/
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strandman

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Re: society for the protection of nh forests
« Reply #23 on: October 29, 2013, 05:35:25 PM »

At least i still scare someone...

let me go on a limb here and bastardize physics 101-

every action has a reaction..not an equal and opposite reaction, but a reaction none the less
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lucky luke

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Re: society for the protection of nh forests
« Reply #24 on: October 30, 2013, 12:45:31 AM »

At least i still scare someone...

a reality; post by admin al:


Vermont Fish & Wildlife Climbing Ban

« on: August 12, 2012, 07:53:48 PM »

The Vermont Fish & Wildlife Department (VFWD) is currently considering a rule that would ban climbing on all VFWD managed lands. Under the rule, recreational rock climbing is a prohibited activity and can only be authorized by a special use permit after the Commissioner determines “that there will be no adverse impact on Authorized Activities (which include but are not limited to hunting, fishing, hiking, swimming, boating, camping, and cross-country skiing) or other adverse impacts on primary purpose of ownership.”

Please take the time to contact the Vermont Fish & Wildlife Board or use the letter writing tool below to urge them to include recreational rock climbing as an “authorized activity.” Section 4.2 of the proposed rule allows the Department to prohibit “Authorized Activities for purposes such as, but not limited to: animal and/or habitat management, plant protection, habitat restoration or public safety.” Therefore, the Department would still have the authority to restrict climbing on a case by case basis if needed.

http://www.accessfund.org/c.tmL5KhNWLrH/b.5208267/k.8C84/Action_Center/siteapps/advocacy/ActionItem.aspx?c=tmL5KhNWLrH&b=5208267&aid=518821

As I said, it is not the bolt, but the evolution. If you can do a site like muir valley...you will discover that you are a guest of some thing where you have to pay. Taxes on land exist and they have to pay for that.
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DaveR

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Re: society for the protection of nh forests
« Reply #25 on: October 30, 2013, 07:38:09 AM »

If you can do a site like muir valley...you will discover that you are a guest of some thing where you have to pay. Taxes on land exist and they have to pay for that.

Bla, Bla, Bla,

You never paid for Muir Valley and you still don't! You just need to sign a waiver releasing the landowner from liability. Most people who go there give a donation just because it is such a fun place to go and we want to show the landowner that we are thankfull for his efforts but nothing is required.

I think Muir Valley is an Excellent example of how climbers and a landowner can work together and a really fun place to climb. I guess you will never know because there are bolts there. OMG, the horror!
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JakeDatc

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Re: society for the protection of nh forests
« Reply #26 on: October 30, 2013, 10:00:34 AM »

If you can do a site like muir valley...you will discover that you are a guest of some thing where you have to pay. Taxes on land exist and they have to pay for that.

Bla, Bla, Bla,

You never paid for Muir Valley and you still don't! You just need to sign a waiver releasing the landowner from liability. Most people who go there give a donation just because it is such a fun place to go and we want to show the landowner that we are thankfull for his efforts but nothing is required.

I think Muir Valley is an Excellent example of how climbers and a landowner can work together and a really fun place to climb. I guess you will never know because there are bolts there. OMG, the horror!

RRG in general would make Champy's head explode..  bolts.. and trad..  .14 climbers AND noobs together AHHHHhhhhhhhhhh *booom* 
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lucky luke

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Re: society for the protection of nh forests
« Reply #27 on: October 30, 2013, 10:13:57 AM »

You never paid for Muir Valley and you still don't! You just need to sign a waiver releasing the landowner from liability. Most people who go there give a donation just because it is such a fun place to go and we want to show the landowner that we are thankfull for his efforts but nothing is required.

it is possible. taxes if nothing is done have to be pay any way. Camp ground most be full at any time, other wise it will be empty. For what I saw, it look a great place where I can go climbing some times. This doesn't means that you have the right to do that every where and that exageration exist when some people occupy a place to change the ethic to a model.

As a biologist, I saw so many good will ending by bad results that I don't trust it easily.
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JakeDatc

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Re: society for the protection of nh forests
« Reply #28 on: October 30, 2013, 10:37:28 AM »

http://wordpress.com/      make a blog... babble your gibberish there
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JBrochu

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Re: society for the protection of nh forests
« Reply #29 on: October 30, 2013, 11:19:16 AM »

it is possible. taxes if nothing is done have to be pay any way. Camp ground most be full at any time, other wise it will be empty.

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