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Author Topic: society for the protection of nh forests  (Read 1542 times)

kenreville

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Re: society for the protection of nh forests
« Reply #30 on: October 30, 2013, 09:20:02 PM »

For god's sake Champ- please, PLEASE get some help in parsing your words. You must have a friend that can help you, no?

My gut tells me that your likely I good guy.

Your ****ed up wording and sentence structure have turned you into a laughing stock as well as a pariah.

It doesn't have to be that way......
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ed_esmond

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Re: society for the protection of nh forests
« Reply #31 on: October 30, 2013, 09:51:47 PM »


a reality; post by admin al:


Vermont Fish & Wildlife Climbing Ban

« on: August 12, 2012, 07:53:48 PM »

The Vermont Fish & Wildlife Department (VFWD) is currently considering a rule that would ban climbing on all VFWD managed lands. a bunch of stuff removed for (heavens forbid) clarity

As I said, it is not the bolt, but the evolution. If you can do a site like muir valley...you will discover that you are a guest of some thing where you have to pay. Taxes on land exist and they have to pay for that.

Parlez de votre âne, nouveau
-or-
Parle à ton cul, encore une fois
-or-
Parlez de votre âne, encore une fois …
-or-
Parler sur votre cul, nouveau

in other words, en englais:"you're squaking out your butt, yet again…."

this proposed regulation is not because of the "evolution" of the "bolt." 

it's because the VTWD can't afford to spend any money (or even potentially spend any money) on any activities other than those directly related to the historic job of the department. (which is strictly dealing with "fish and wildlife…")

in other words: they have barely enough money to manage "fish and wildlife" on the lands they control, they can't afford to add anything else to the mix.

they don't have the money to oversee any "non-game" uses of the lands they control.  those uses include "recreational use of ATVs, snowmobiles, non- motorized cycling, horseback riding, rock climbing and other activities not considered wildlife-based or deemed incompatible with the purposes of VFWD ownership."  (this comes directly from the www.vtfishandwildlife.com website AND from my personal conversations with state legislators on committees that oversee the VFWD.)

in other word: in order to avoid ever having to spend any of their precious resources, in the future, on anything other than "fish and wildlife," they want to be able to ban any activity that may (even remotely) may cause them to spend those resources.

even if it's not a problem now or in the future… (and they specifically say there is no problem currently, on any of their lands.)

it has nothing to do with "bad" behavior by anyone.  the VFWD want to eliminate the chance of ever having to spend money regulating any traditional non-"fish and wildlife" usage of the properties they control. it's not just "bolted" rock climbing; it includes horseback riding, mountain biking, and x-c skiing…

so,please, please, please, stop lecturing us about something you know nothing about.  it's tedious, it makes you look foolish, AND prevents us from ever taking you seriously, even when you have something insightful to say…

ed e




 
 
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lucky luke

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Re: society for the protection of nh forests
« Reply #32 on: October 30, 2013, 11:55:04 PM »

For god's sake Champ- please, PLEASE get some help in parsing your words. You must have a friend that can help you, no?

That kind of discussion is not fun and I don't want to spend time on it for syntax. I don't care.   

The fact is that Strandman said: " sounds like the group from a while back that was horrified seeing bolts on Sundown ???"

The Vermont Fish & Wildlife Department said: "rock climbing is a prohibited activity and can only be authorized by a special use permit after the Commissioner determines “that there will be no adverse impact on Authorized Activities (which include but are not limited to hunting, fishing, hiking, swimming, boating, camping, and cross-country skiing) or other adverse impacts on primary purpose of ownership.”

I consider that smartpig bring very good point to discuss. I don't agree on every think. I remember a route in quebec where I dig just enough place to use an hex in a very fun route, a 5.7. So, in 30 feet of c\rack, I don't think that I remove all the natural life...and if other people use the same spot (as I did several time) there is no degradation of nature.

But there is people like ed esmon, Jbrochu and friends of the women with who I climbed. There firends said that I don't use enough protection for the safety of the women (it was a 5.7 route, the move was 5.5 and she climb (?) 5.9). So for the loving bolt's friends of the women, we must clean all the 30 feet of the crack...or place a bolt. And what said smartpig make sens, unfortunately. (I agree that it is just a little minority who laught at every mistake of other).

The images of many of you; ed esmon, jBrochu, jakedatc is very clear. To win your point, you are ready for every think. Careless is my opinion... and it is the only time that I am happy to have prosoamnesia, the incapacity to recognize people, because I don't know and want to know, who you are.

The distinction between sport and trad, that I like to have, is to make the distinction between some think like muir valley and pinacle ridge in Mt Washington where the impact of climber is very low despite the fragility of the environment (I didn't see bolt or fix pin in the 5.9 variation, no plant degradation or human trace, some piton in the 5.8 variation). Two ethic, two play ground and a mutual respect for each other with a willpower to learn the difference.       
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JakeDatc

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Re: society for the protection of nh forests
« Reply #33 on: October 31, 2013, 12:22:43 AM »

" To win your point, you are ready for every think"

We make our point by writing clearly and without a huge bias towards one style of climbing or the other. 

you say that a sport crag can't be run done on private property.    Wrong,  the Webers  have done an amazing job with Muir Valley.  I've met the man, donated $ the days I climbed, even talked to him about an issue that came up while I was there.   He runs search and rescue classes,  has emergency phones in the valley,  even loans out helmets and stick clips to those who might need them to prevent accidents.   Tons of trail work and volunteer days to keep the place looking amazing. 

you should  read more and type less..  you're repetitive, boring and incomprehensible. 
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M_Sprague

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Re: society for the protection of nh forests
« Reply #34 on: October 31, 2013, 01:57:16 AM »

As the white mountain forest authorize hand bolt placement only, ...

That is incorrect. The restriction on power drills is only in areas where no motorised or mechanical devices are allowed, such as ATVs, carts, bicycles, electric toothbrushes etc.
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DLottmann

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Re: society for the protection of nh forests
« Reply #35 on: October 31, 2013, 08:25:30 PM »

As the white mountain forest authorize hand bolt placement only, ...

That is incorrect. The restriction on power drills is only in areas where no motorised or mechanical devices are allowed, such as ATVs, carts, bicycles, electric toothbrushes etc.

Specifically designated wilderness areas if I’m not mistaken, which is a small percentage of the WMNF.

But Champ/LL knows everything.
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JakeDatc

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Re: society for the protection of nh forests
« Reply #36 on: October 31, 2013, 09:13:11 PM »

As the white mountain forest authorize hand bolt placement only, ...

That is incorrect. The restriction on power drills is only in areas where no motorised or mechanical devices are allowed, such as ATVs, carts, bicycles, electric toothbrushes etc.

Specifically designated wilderness areas if I’m not mistaken, which is a small percentage of the WMNF.

But Champ/LL knows everything.

you are correct..   on the first part ;)
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Pete Jackson

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Re: society for the protection of nh forests
« Reply #37 on: October 31, 2013, 11:51:56 PM »

Specifically designated wilderness areas if I’m not mistaken, which is a small percentage of the WMNF.

This jibes with my understanding as well.

At the risk of becoming the "off topic guy": the WMNF provides a lot of GIS layer data that you can load up in Google Earth, QGIS, or ArcGIS. Much of it is useless (like "Rock Climbing Areas") but much of it is really useful, like "Wilderness Areas".

Not sure whether your power drill is allowed on that new route? Take a waypoint with your GPS, then load it into Google Earth with the Wilderness Boundaries and see. Also a useful tool for determining whether that crag (like, say, The Bakery) is on private land or WMNF land.

Here are the data: http://www.fs.usda.gov/main/whitemountain/landmanagement/gis

Enjoy! And if you want a primer on how to use the data, let me know.
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xcrag_corex

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Re: society for the protection of nh forests
« Reply #38 on: November 01, 2013, 12:22:47 PM »

As the white mountain forest authorize hand bolt placement only, ...

That is incorrect. The restriction on power drills is only in areas where no motorised or mechanical devices are allowed, such as ATVs, carts, bicycles, electric toothbrushes etc.
Shit.....how am i suppose to brush my teeth while camping..... guess i'll need a trad tooth brush.... wait boulderers carry trad tooth brushes (epiphany!) I should be posting this in the Bouldering/ Trad debate....
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M_Sprague

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Re: society for the protection of nh forests
« Reply #39 on: November 01, 2013, 06:28:03 PM »

Specifically designated wilderness areas if I’m not mistaken, which is a small percentage of the WMNF.

Enjoy! And if you want a primer on how to use the data, let me know.

Yes, Please! How do I get the files onto Google Earth, if you are able to describe  that easily. Beware I am an IT boob.
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lucky luke

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Re: society for the protection of nh forests
« Reply #40 on: November 03, 2013, 11:50:04 PM »

you should  read more and type less..

I red I red. the link just above

 "the reason that they don't charge admission fees is because, under KY law, that would expose them to a lot of liabilities"

 "All costs for maintaining the land and its facilities come out of Rick and Liz Weber's pockets"

"Back in October of 2010, I posted this similar alert regarding the financial plight of Muir Valley. The situation hasn't changed since then -- if anything, it's gotten worse, as the number of climbers flocking to the RRG in general and Muir Valley in particular has steadily climbed. We've already lost one RRG area recently (Roadside Crag), and we just can't afford to lose Muir Valley."

s...t, they repeat what I am saying!!!it is boring. and they do that in 2010, 2012 and will do it in 2014...incomprehensible!
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JakeDatc

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Re: society for the protection of nh forests
« Reply #41 on: November 03, 2013, 11:58:53 PM »

What is your point?    Muir Valley is privately owned and uses donations and volunteer work to keep the area running amazingly well.   

obviously private areas can go horribly wrong too.. bad apples ruin it all.  down the road at Torrent Falls,  climbers who did not obey the rules and continued to despite warnings caused it to become totally private and only used by the Torrent falls Cabin renters. 

Champ no one knows wtf you are saying.  you write unreadable gibberish that people are sick and tired of reading. 

that link is over a year old, as far as I know Muir Valley is doing perfectly well.  you could Email Rick about it 

People are not Required to pay at Muir.  People WANT to donate to a family that cares about climbers and makes the area an amazing place
http://www.muirvalley.com/news---updates.html

Muir Valley is larger than Rumney and far better run than the forest service does.  if the mandatory $3 parking fee was used for Rumney instead of being put in a large forest service pot and ignored trail work that is actually needed could be done instead of making a stupid unfinished path along the road while you can't even walk  at Triple corners or Yellowknife without sliding and kicking rocks all over. 

 
« Last Edit: November 04, 2013, 09:17:07 AM by JakeDatc »
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danf

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Re: society for the protection of nh forests
« Reply #42 on: November 04, 2013, 07:33:04 PM »

no fixed route development
Define this a bit better.  No fixed pro at all I'm assuming, but cleaning rock, tree anchors...?
Now that this has delved into yet another nearly-epic sideshow, I'd still like to know the answer to this...  Please?
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crazyt

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Re: society for the protection of nh forests
« Reply #43 on: November 05, 2013, 03:14:17 AM »

Champ no one knows wtf you are saying.  you write unreadable gibberish that people are sick and tired of reading. 




I'm Not tired of it and neither are you Jakedatc or any of us that reply to Lucky luke. His posts are the most entertaining and I can't imagine this forum without LL. If all of Champs posts were compiled into a book he'd be rich and famous.

How come I always forget how to seperate my reply from the quote?













« Last Edit: November 05, 2013, 03:20:10 AM by crazyt »
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Re: society for the protection of nh forests
« Reply #44 on: November 05, 2013, 11:10:30 AM »

is this what you wanted?

-------------------------

Champ no one knows wtf you are saying.  you write unreadable gibberish that people are sick and tired of reading. 

I'm Not tired of it and neither are you Jakedatc or any of us that reply to Lucky luke. His posts are the most entertaining and I can't imagine this forum without LL. If all of Champs posts were compiled into a book he'd be rich and famous.

How come I always forget how to seperate my reply from the quote?
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