fear and scary route

[Jeff]

Opening Pandora's box, if you can "sew it up with gear" between the bolts, why did it need the bolts? Just askin'! I've carried and placed gear on lots of "sport" climbs, even sometimes by passing the bolts. I understand and accept the bolts when there is no gear, but...  Of course, I've been climbing since that's the only name we had for it ("climbing"), so I realize I'm a dinosaur . I'm OK with that.

[strandman]

Heres an example from CO..a f/a from the the 80's  stemmingwith gear then 2 bolts and finally thin crack to finish..nice climb 11+...over the years it gets retrobolted with 7 bolts ans still no one does it...just last week done in original form with the middle bolts
?

Is climbing this difficult ?

What if Airation was bolted ? 

[tradmanclimbz]

Place as much gear as you want . I have no problem with that. What I find somewhat amuseing is the trad bumbly who trash talks sport climbing but is not brave enough to do certain sport climbs without cheater gear between the bolts yet all those wimpy chicken liver sport climbers do not seem to have any problems climbing through to the next bolt.

[sneoh]

Airation would see about 50+ ascents on a nice weekend if it were bolted, but having it bolted would change its character significantly, if not spoil it for eternity.

To be fair, plenty of chicken shit climbers in both sport and trad.  Shit, I count myself as a member, have been since 1993. 

I led NMD on trad gear and the one original expansion bolt in '95 or '96.  I think I placed one fewer piece than the number of lower bolts. I have also eyed and TR'ed the direct start for a number of years.  By my fuzzy memory, it goes at about the same grade but solid gear placements in the granular horizontals up the nice steep face may prove challenging and far in-between.  It probably been led this way though.  Lots of good climbers out there who care not of the "profound" differences between trad and sport.

[tradmanclimbz]

Nothing wrong with being chicken liver helps you reach old age in one piece....  I am a huge chicken as soon as it gets scary...   Its the part about putting down  a style of climbing that you are not brave enough to do

[sneoh]

Nothing wrong with being chicken liver helps you reach old age in one piece....

Amen to that.

[lucky luke]

"When you are scare, you can't concentrate as much as when your mind is relax."
If you let the fear take over, then ye,s but most people (myself included) concentrate better when there is a little fear.
It is a fine line and everyone is a little or even quite diferent.
I guess that is exactly the point and any attempt to over-generalize or over-simplify emotions and motivation is fool's errand.

maybe scary and stress is not the same. Being chalenge is interesting, commitment, adventure. But if there is a danger, I am not scare, I don't climb. If I decide that I can do the move, I do it...and I know that I can fall.

[Pete Jackson]

But if there is a danger, I am not scare, I don't climb. If I decide that I can do the move, I do it...and I know that I can fall.

That makes sense. Confidence is an important part of making committing moves. One can be scared but still be confident and come through it ok. Most climbers fall once self-doubt enters the equation.

[Admin Al]

Most climbers fall once self-doubt enters the equation.

 +++

[lucky luke]

One can be scared but still be confident and come through it ok.

agree,

Psychological pro: you are scare as s@$#, you know that the pro won't hold you body weight, but you place it just to be able to relax and think that you are not going so far.

I am scare to be confident

[perswig]

I am scare to be confident

I'm confident I'll be scared.
Dale

[strandman]

confiidence in climbing is a mixture of blind faith, cockiness and dumb luck..with a dash of "why not"

[sneoh]

confidence in climbing is a mixture of blind faith, cockiness and dumb luck..with a dash of "why not"

+1.  And experience contributes favorably to "blind faith" and "cockiness".

[steve weitzler]

Place as much gear as you want . I have no problem with that. What I find somewhat amuseing is the trad bumbly who trash talks sport climbing but is not brave enough to do certain sport climbs without cheater gear between the bolts yet all those wimpy chicken liver sport climbers do not seem to have any problems climbing through to the next bolt.

How is placing gear between bolts cheating? As a climber of about 40 years, if I can gear in I will sport, trad, ice doesn't matter.  The idea is to live and climb tomorrow. If you wnat to be bold and dead feel free. I'd rather be a living trad bumbly drinking in the bar at the end of the day. Just sayin'

[tradmanclimbz]

The sport climbs are set up as a challange in skill and bravery. The challenge is to be skilled, strong and brave enough to climb from bolt to bolt without resting on gear or adding gear. Simply clip and go. It is perfectly fine to add  gear to the sport climb if you are not strong and brave enough to climb it as it was designed but by doing so you have lost the right to bitch about sport climbing being neither.