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Author Topic: fear and scary route  (Read 2590 times)

DLottmann

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Re: fear and scary route
« Reply #60 on: November 18, 2013, 08:19:27 AM »

...What I find somewhat amuseing is the trad bumbly who trash talks sport climbing but is not brave enough to do certain sport climbs without cheater gear between the bolts yet all those wimpy chicken liver sport climbers do not seem to have any problems climbing through to the next bolt.

I think what you guys might be scratching at here is sport climbers tend to be more comfortable climbing closer to their limits, more comfortable with air time, etc., than your average moderate trad climber.
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strandman

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Re: fear and scary route
« Reply #61 on: November 18, 2013, 09:24:51 AM »

Because of my past, i have always disliked falling..except on TR...maybe that's why i can never get decent at sport climbing ?

It's not really an intense fear, I just don't like it.
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lucky luke

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Re: fear and scary route
« Reply #62 on: November 18, 2013, 10:34:46 AM »

The sport climbs are set up as a challange in skill and bravery. The challenge is to be skilled, strong and brave enough to climb from bolt to bolt without resting on gear or adding gear. Simply clip and go.

Some sport climber said that they climb cap trinity in Quebec in 9 hours...wow! amasing

You learned that they work the route for three months...by 30 days...by 24 hours...total: they spent more than 1800 hours in the route, plus the 9 hours. It is not what I think of: "clip and go". They work the route with the rope above them, top rope, do retro bolting and rest while the rope stay in the cliff for the next try. It is not what I called brave when you set the bolt in a way where there is no danger. In fact, the challenge is to be the first to free it and bring your friend to try what you realize...or make money when you told every body that you climb the route in...9 hours! But they are skill and strong to be able to climb that hard.

Trad climber will do the route bottom up. One day, they will sew the route, the other practically solo it. As he climb bottom up, he never know how the pro will be higher. So, if there is no pro the climber will be in danger. As you know the danger and push your limit, limit of your knowledge and limit of your capacity, they are brave.
If they fall, or bail because they chicken up, they still don't do the climb without artificial technique to do the move (retro bolting and clipping a bolt to work a route and top roping a move is artificial). In some case, they will do the first ascent of a route and in other they will do the first free ascent of a route.

So, the trad climber are brave, strong, but not as skill as sport in climbing hard move. I admit that some one who sew the route is not necessary a trad climber, as much as someone who learned by rapping in the route or ask a friend which nuts and cam to use and where you most used it. The knowledge to know where is your safety limit is hard to find and need many time spend in the wild doing easy on sight route and harder one. When you look at experience trad climber, you will see that they place there pro at the same places. Not too close so they loose energy, not too far so they can get kill.  But at a distance that, even if he took a 60 footer, he will be safe....at least in his mind.
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pappy

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Re: fear and scary route
« Reply #63 on: November 18, 2013, 10:44:42 AM »

The sport climbs are set up as a challange in skill and bravery. The challenge is to be skilled, strong and brave enough to climb from bolt to bolt without resting on gear or adding gear. Simply clip and go. It is perfectly fine to add  gear to the sport climb if you are not strong and brave enough to climb it as it was designed but by doing so you have lost the right to bitch about sport climbing being neither.

Say what? Strong enough to climb it as designed? I thought mother nature designed the effing climb. The rap bolters put in gear to change that design, and that's fine, as long as the climb does not protect well with gear. I don't sport much, (my excuse is that it's boring as hell, but old age and fat contribute ::) ), and I can't imagine spending the extra effort to place gear on any of the sport climbs I've seen or been on, but if I were to take that extra effort to do so, I fail to see how the fact that I am actually using the rock as designed and expending the extra effort somehow disqualifies me from bitching about sport weenies.
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steve weitzler

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Re: fear and scary route
« Reply #64 on: November 18, 2013, 12:26:57 PM »

The sport climbs are set up as a challange in skill and bravery. The challenge is to be skilled, strong and brave enough to climb from bolt to bolt without resting on gear or adding gear.

Not to beat a dead horse here but sport climbs are "set up" for the skilled, strong , and brave? Honestly if a piece of rock lends itself to a climber placing protection without bolting the route from the top down it seems to me that skilled, strong, and brave is the climber who does the climb sans bolts. I totally agree with Pappy, Nature designed the climbs. But what is nice about climbing is we can climb the way we like. If I don't like bolts (just saying, I have nothing against them) I can climb the route without them or I can climb the route with the bolts or a combination. It's my choice. However way I chose doesn't make me a trad weenie or sport weenie . I'm still a climber by it's definition.
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DGoguen

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Re: fear and scary route
« Reply #65 on: November 18, 2013, 12:41:26 PM »

I'd have to say the same to either a sport climber, trad climber or Ice climber that tells me I'm placing too much gear, or not enough for that matter.
"Bite Me"
« Last Edit: November 18, 2013, 12:44:26 PM by DGoguen »
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sneoh

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Re: fear and scary route
« Reply #66 on: November 18, 2013, 02:09:01 PM »

i have always disliked falling..except on TR...maybe that's why i can never get decent at sport climbing ?
It's not really an intense fear, I just don't like it.
I do not have anywhere near the extensive experience that you have, John, but I feel the same way.  And I think to be able to red point very hard sport routes quickly or to flash/onsight them,  one has to be unafraid to take long falls. 
I prolly piss some people off ... but I would say victory whips are really silly.  I just can't get into that mindset.

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steve weitzler

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Re: fear and scary route
« Reply #67 on: November 18, 2013, 02:13:54 PM »

i have always disliked falling..except on TR...maybe that's why i can never get decent at sport climbing ?
It's not really an intense fear, I just don't like it.


Geez John, in all the years I've known you and based on witnessing a few of your falls I wouldn't thought you felt this way. ;)
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DGoguen

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Re: fear and scary route
« Reply #68 on: November 18, 2013, 03:22:40 PM »

I prolly piss some people off ... but I would say victory whips are really silly.
I know I'm a dinosaur but what is a "victory whip"?
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DLottmann

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Re: fear and scary route
« Reply #69 on: November 18, 2013, 04:28:15 PM »

I prolly piss some people off ... but I would say victory whips are really silly.
I know I'm a dinosaur but what is a "victory whip"?

I'm gonna go with the context here and say it must be "jumping off" after you reach the chains? Though wouldn't be much of a whip if you clip the chains right?
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JakeDatc

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Re: fear and scary route
« Reply #70 on: November 18, 2013, 04:34:19 PM »

I prolly piss some people off ... but I would say victory whips are really silly.
I know I'm a dinosaur but what is a "victory whip"?

I'm gonna go with the context here and say it must be "jumping off" after you reach the chains? Though wouldn't be much of a whip if you clip the chains right?

this is more popular on very overhanging stuff.   you basically tag the anchors.. established that you could clip the chains and then whip off.     it is also a way to use a 60m rope at the Motherlode at RRG and still make it back to the ground ;)    locally..  Whip Tide  and Predator   are popular. 
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sneoh

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Re: fear and scary route
« Reply #71 on: November 18, 2013, 04:45:53 PM »

Don't mean to get off on a tangent ... my point is I can't imagine myself ever taking a voluntary whip, sport or trad, victory or otherwise.
Typically, a body length fall is plenty for me.  :)  Like some of us, I do not like falling off routes.
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Admin Al

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Re: fear and scary route
« Reply #72 on: November 18, 2013, 04:57:31 PM »

I'd have to say the same to either a sport climber, trad climber or Ice climber that tells me I'm placing too much gear, or not enough for that matter.
"Bite Me"

+++

I've had lots of people ask me over they years; "Why did you put in that much gear/screws/etc?"

My response is always; "Because I can!"
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strandman

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Re: fear and scary route
« Reply #73 on: November 18, 2013, 05:33:23 PM »

Luke- some day maybe you can explain my late,great friend Todd Skinner to me...by far the most talented crack(trad) climber I have ever climbed with and yet by any definition  a pioneer in sport climbing in america ???

He climbed 13+ crack before he did 13+ sport   ;D  How did this happen  oh ya  also freed the Salathe Wall   kinda varied talent would you not say ?
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JakeDatc

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Re: fear and scary route
« Reply #74 on: November 18, 2013, 06:13:00 PM »

Luke- some day maybe you can explain my late,great friend Todd Skinner to me...by far the most talented crack(trad) climber I have ever climbed with and yet by any definition  a pioneer in sport climbing in america ???

He climbed 13+ crack before he did 13+ sport   ;D  How did this happen  oh ya  also freed the Salathe Wall   kinda varied talent would you not say ?

shhh.. facts and reality just confuse him. 

i also have a few friends who are in the .13 trad and sport  group.   RRG/ NRG  in general has many. 
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