Author Topic: Know The Ropes- Lowering  (Read 1330 times)

Offline strandman

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Re: Know The Ropes- Lowering
« Reply #15 on: November 12, 2013, 09:12:13 AM »
I was haefting an 80m X 9.2 the other day... a really long string !  But about the same weight as my 60m x10.5

Offline sneoh

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Re: Know The Ropes- Lowering
« Reply #16 on: November 12, 2013, 10:10:39 AM »
9.2 mm SCARES me and I am a lightweight.  Just got used to 9.8mm after three years of "imposed training" put on by my friends and every 9.8mm Sterling Velocity you can imagine.
DMan, ice/alpine is a different story, I grant you that.  I am referring to all sport or "lightly mixed" routes.
Why were you hefting a 80m, Strand?  :)  A sporto now??  :):)




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Offline strandman

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Re: Know The Ropes- Lowering
« Reply #17 on: November 12, 2013, 10:25:49 AM »
80m..yup...but at Peni you only need a 40m line !   I may have to do a lot ofeasy sport during recovery, though some of the local cracks NEVER get done

Offline Pete Jackson

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Re: Know The Ropes- Lowering
« Reply #18 on: November 12, 2013, 11:42:52 AM »
"3) ...We call out when the halfway mark passes. If the leader is not close to the anchor, then the belayer should be tied in.”

I think it’s a good practice to “close the system” every time before the climber starts. I wouldn’t want to have to wait while my belayer ties in when we discovered the route was longer than expected. To that note, I often close it just with a quick overhand on a bight... faster than tying in if I’m not following the pitch.

+1. This is probably the one area where I am most guilty of cutting corners, and probably one of the more dangerous. It's definitely important to have a closed system before the climber leaves the ground. We treat the "HALFWAY!" call as a time to re-check this.  But we should be double checking this before the climber leaves the dirt. If this thread has done one positive thing for me, it's has renewed my focus on this pre-climb check. We can always improve.

As far as the 80-meter ropes go..... when they start offering 90m ropes, I will buy them. And cut them in half to have two ropes of the length I prefer. ;-) My wife wants to start buying 70-meter ropes: maybe I should relent if she will carry the rope?
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Offline sneoh

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Re: Know The Ropes- Lowering
« Reply #19 on: November 12, 2013, 12:17:06 PM »
Pete - if your wife offers to go climbing with you AND carry the 70m, you would be A FOOL not to take her up on it! :)

Tell you the truth; sometimes I get lazy, I just pack the 50m (chopped down from 60), ten draws, and two slings and head to the shorter crags at Rumney.

Edit:  I think chopping only one end of a bicolor rope is one of the more dangerous thing one can do.  Perhaps not for you but for someone else that might use the rope.

"You have to decide to do a flag, where you can broke your vertebrae or a barn door depending of your pro" - the poster formerly known as Champ

Offline Pete Jackson

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Re: Know The Ropes- Lowering
« Reply #20 on: November 12, 2013, 01:02:55 PM »
Pete - if your wife offers to go climbing with you AND carry the 70m, you would be A FOOL not to take her up on it! :)

Hah! Yes I suppose you're right. Soon, you have to meet Shana next time you're out at Rumney!

Edit:  I think chopping only one end of a bicolor rope is one of the more dangerous thing one can do.  Perhaps not for you but for someone else that might use the rope.

Good call! Trim both ends in order to keep the middle mark where it belongs. It means I retire it slightly sooner, but I would never forgive myself if a misplaced middle mark led to an accident.

There are plenty of uses for a 4-foot 10mm rope around the house and yard.



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Offline OldEric

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Re: Know The Ropes- Lowering
« Reply #21 on: November 12, 2013, 03:13:39 PM »
Be very very nervous about blindly trusting the "middle" mark whether its an actual mark or a bicolor.  Either lower both ends at the same time for a rap or get confirmation that they are down.  If doing mutiple raps at least lower them simulantiously for the first one and see where any marks end up rlative the the anchor.  Beware of marks warning that "the end is near" - it may be nearer then you think if they get confused with the middle... Confusing the marks has been the cause of many accidents.

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Re: Know The Ropes- Lowering
« Reply #22 on: November 12, 2013, 03:21:55 PM »
...Beware of marks warning that "the end is near" - it may be nearer then you think if they get confused with the middle... Confusing the marks has been the cause of many accidents.

This has been discontinued as far as I know... haven’t seen a rope made with these in a few years...

Offline OldEric

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Re: Know The Ropes- Lowering
« Reply #23 on: November 12, 2013, 05:39:56 PM »
...Beware of marks warning that "the end is near" - it may be nearer then you think if they get confused with the middle... Confusing the marks has been the cause of many accidents.
This has been discontinued as far as I know... haven’t seen a rope made with these in a few years...

Manufacturing may have been discontinued (Petzl doesn't seem to make them any more and they were the worst culprit) but therre was no recall.  There are still a lot out there.

Offline strandman

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Re: Know The Ropes- Lowering
« Reply #24 on: November 12, 2013, 06:05:20 PM »
The end is near when you come to the KNOT in the rope

DLottmann

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Re: Know The Ropes- Lowering
« Reply #25 on: November 12, 2013, 07:56:40 PM »
Well I am glad they are not making them anymore I don't think they were worthy of a recall for user error

Offline tradmanclimbz

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Re: Know The Ropes- Lowering
« Reply #26 on: November 13, 2013, 06:40:35 AM »
Petzle is directly responsible for every person they killed and injured with that terrible system. No different than makeing a car with the gas peddal where the brake is supposed to be.
 An accurate middle mark is essentual for anyone who does a lot of rappels especially late in the day with bad weather comming in.  Some folks seem to like to ridicule anyone who relys on the middle mark and they often preach the lower both ends at the same time method. In the real world lowering both ends while feeding through rap rings is slow and twist and tangle prone. Know your rope and know your middle mark and things can move along much faster and safer.

Offline strandman

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Re: Know The Ropes- Lowering
« Reply #27 on: November 13, 2013, 09:14:35 AM »
A sad issue.. Paul Duval's death involved middle marks ???? Eric ?

Offline OldEric

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Re: Know The Ropes- Lowering
« Reply #28 on: November 13, 2013, 09:30:38 AM »
A sad issue.. Paul Duval's death involved middle marks ???? Eric ?

That was the story I heard.

DLottmann

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Re: Know The Ropes- Lowering
« Reply #29 on: November 13, 2013, 09:39:22 AM »
Petzle is directly responsible for every person they killed and injured with that terrible system. No different than makeing a car with the gas peddal where the brake is supposed to be.

Sorry but gotta disagree here.

If you didn't notice you only pulled 5 meters of rope through the anchor, or 55 meters, AND didn't knot your ends, AND didn't look for the ends of the rope while rappelling, that is plain NOT PAYING ATTENTION. Pilot error, not equipment failure.

Blaming end marks is a knee jerk victim protecting response IMO.

However they did the responsible thing by stopping production since obviously people were not paying enough attention to what they were doing.