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Author Topic: Lincoln's Throat call out  (Read 2857 times)

sneoh

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Re: Lincoln's Throat call out
« Reply #30 on: December 15, 2013, 10:53:13 PM »

Can/should someone be heli-vac out against his will?  It sounds like the young man was well enough to hike out under his own power once he was found and rejuvenated.  Pappy might be right; for concern of liability, perhaps it was deemed less risky to fly him out than to have him maybe collapse on the hike out.  If so, then the question of charging him for the heli-vac becomes tricky.
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"You have to decide to do a flag, where you can broke your vertebrae or a barn door depending of your pro" - the poster formerly known as Champ

tradmanclimbz

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Re: Lincoln's Throat call out
« Reply #31 on: December 16, 2013, 06:26:35 AM »

The decision makeing process on who to charge and who not to charge seems a bit crazy to me. It would boil down to a popularity contest. i hate those processes and make a point of not watching sports that run that way. Figuerskateing, dressage, etc.  Someone in authority gets to make the decision that the victim was an ahole lets charge em. how do we know that the person makeing the decision is not completly incompetent or in a bad mood.

I feel that part of what makes a worth while society is taking care of those in need.  The last thing that we need is a tea party attitude about S&R. Some of the thing they have done down south are sickening.  Private for profit fire companys that sit there and watch your house burn down because you were not on their list of customers.
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neiceclimber

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Re: Lincoln's Throat call out
« Reply #32 on: December 16, 2013, 07:53:12 AM »

SAR should be free, unless it's like some collosall f up like leaving your house naked on a -f day to solo pinnacle. Shit happens to even the best prepared.

« Last Edit: December 16, 2013, 07:55:33 AM by neiceclimber »
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sneoh

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Re: Lincoln's Throat call out
« Reply #33 on: December 16, 2013, 11:05:09 AM »

Some of the thing they have done down south are sickening.  Private for profit fire companys that sit there and watch your house burn down because you were not on their list of customers.
Really?  I hope you are joking. Likely not tho.
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"You have to decide to do a flag, where you can broke your vertebrae or a barn door depending of your pro" - the poster formerly known as Champ

steve weitzler

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Re: Lincoln's Throat call out
« Reply #34 on: December 16, 2013, 01:14:57 PM »

Just my opinion but......I would tell him to try to get out on his own. Get back to us tomorrow. If he knew that a rescue was not available my guess is he would have gotten out on his own power. The body can do amazing things in life or death situations or perceived life or death.
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DLottmann

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Re: Lincoln's Throat call out
« Reply #35 on: December 16, 2013, 01:39:57 PM »

To clarify he did call for the rescue but was reported overdue. I do not believe he had a cell phone with him.
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DaveR

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Re: Lincoln's Throat call out
« Reply #36 on: December 16, 2013, 03:12:51 PM »

To clarify he did call for the rescue but was reported overdue. I do not believe he had a cell phone with him.

Sent you a PM
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danf

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Re: Lincoln's Throat call out
« Reply #37 on: December 16, 2013, 05:11:05 PM »

Really?  I hope you are joking. Likely not tho.
It has happened. Most recent case in my memory was just a couple years ago in Tennessee as I recall. I don't have time to find a link at the moment. As a firefighter, the whole concept disgusts me. That being said, that is how firefighting in the U.S. started way back when...
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DaveR

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Re: Lincoln's Throat call out
« Reply #38 on: December 16, 2013, 05:18:11 PM »

Really?  I hope you are joking. Likely not tho.
It has happened. Most recent case in my memory was just a couple years ago in Tennessee as I recall. I don't have time to find a link at the moment. As a firefighter, the whole concept disgusts me. That being said, that is how firefighting in the U.S. started way back when...

Yup, no firemark and your house burned. I used to do some consulting for Rixson firemark and in the process managed to collect a couple of the old firemarks.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ae/Fire_mark_Dulwich.jpg/300px-Fire_mark_Dulwich.jpg
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JBrochu

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Re: Lincoln's Throat call out
« Reply #39 on: December 16, 2013, 05:45:03 PM »

The decision makeing process on who to charge and who not to charge seems a bit crazy to me. It would boil down to a popularity contest. i hate those processes and make a point of not watching sports that run that way. Figuerskateing, dressage, etc.  Someone in authority gets to make the decision that the victim was an ahole lets charge em. how do we know that the person makeing the decision is not completly incompetent or in a bad mood.

I kind of feel the same way. I mean the criticism we read in the report was that he made the mistake of "leaving the trail" and "traveling alone." So anybody soloing anything is now being irresponsible?

And I think they also mentioned that he survived the night because he was prepared for it. Well maybe if he wasn't carrying a bunch of crap he would have been faster. Or maybe he would have kept moving and not required a rescue if the alternative was freezing to death.

I just don't trust a bureaucrat to decide who is incompetent or reckless. Also we waste so much money on corporate welfare a few rescues here and there are peanuts.
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DaveR

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Re: Lincoln's Throat call out
« Reply #40 on: December 16, 2013, 06:03:50 PM »

The decision makeing process on who to charge and who not to charge seems a bit crazy to me. It would boil down to a popularity contest. i hate those processes and make a point of not watching sports that run that way. Figuerskateing, dressage, etc.  Someone in authority gets to make the decision that the victim was an ahole lets charge em. how do we know that the person makeing the decision is not completly incompetent or in a bad mood.

I kind of feel the same way. I mean the criticism we read in the report was that he made the mistake of "leaving the trail" and "traveling alone." So anybody soloing anything is now being irresponsible?

And I think they also mentioned that he survived the night because he was prepared for it. Well maybe if he wasn't carrying a bunch of crap he would have been faster. Or maybe he would have kept moving and not required a rescue if the alternative was freezing to death.

I just don't trust a bureaucrat to decide who is incompetent or reckless. Also we waste so much money on corporate welfare a few rescues here and there are peanuts.

After talking to people involved all I have to say is don't believe everything the paper says. He HAD to be either carried or flown off. He was NOT ok as the paper stated and was unable to move on his own. He is DAMN lucky he is alive today. A case of inexperience leading to bad judgment. Sitting on your ass at treeline in those conditions is generally not going to end well.
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JBrochu

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Re: Lincoln's Throat call out
« Reply #41 on: December 16, 2013, 06:19:42 PM »

Well that makes more sense regarding the airlift.

They should have said inexperience and bad judgement were the likely causes instead of traveling alone and leaving the trail. (I get that it may have been bad judgement for someone inexperienced to solo this route and/or not turn back sooner but the quote makes it sound like it would be a mistake/reckless for anyone to solo anything.)

I don't really have any actual criticism for the climber since we can only guess what happened at this point. Was just making a point about not agreeing with the cited causes of the incident.
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Have a quiche, now, or maybe a tort.  You deserve it!
-bristolpipe

I like to keep things simple, even if it's faaaken painful and miserable.
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This is grain, which any fool can eat, but for which the Lord intended a more divine means of consumption.
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DaveR

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Re: Lincoln's Throat call out
« Reply #42 on: December 16, 2013, 07:16:23 PM »

Well that makes more sense regarding the airlift.

They should have said inexperience and bad judgement were the likely causes instead of traveling alone and leaving the trail. (I get that it may have been bad judgement for someone inexperienced to solo this route and/or not turn back sooner but the quote makes it sound like it would be a mistake/reckless for anyone to solo anything.)

I don't really have any actual criticism for the climber since we can only guess what happened at this point. Was just making a point about not agreeing with the cited causes of the incident.

If soloing constitutes bad judgment many on this board are guilty including me. I wonder what the paper would say about a full moon solo. Central gulley by full moon a few years ago was an awesome experience.
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lucky luke

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Re: Re: Lincoln's Throat call out
« Reply #43 on: December 16, 2013, 07:19:12 PM »

I think there is a cultural difference with some Canadian climbers that could cause more of these casual calls for help. Canada Parks has well paid, well trained, well staffed & equipped mountain rescue folks on 24 hour call... I have heard they even discourage fellow recreational climbers from helping an injured climber and to “let the pros take care of it”... this rubs me the wrong way as climbers have always come to each other’s aid IMO... like a “Band of Brothers (and sisters)” we look out for each other... or should.

When the guy died in 2012 on la pomme d'or, nothing of that exist and it was unexperience people who make the rescue.

Before, the mentality was that: you want to go in, you have to go out by your own. And the climber train to be able to rescue themselve and there partner. 

Unfortunately, that mentality doesn't exist on a large scale.
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Admin Al

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Re: Lincoln's Throat call out
« Reply #44 on: December 16, 2013, 07:39:07 PM »

it was Eric Eisle that wrote the story for the Sun. surprising that he missed that!
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