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Author Topic: Lincoln's Throat call out  (Read 2897 times)

tradmanclimbz

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Re: Lincoln's Throat call out
« Reply #45 on: December 16, 2013, 07:48:34 PM »

there was annother fire incident this fire season in AZ  The fire company  hosed down the one house that was  on their list. they let the fire take the house next door that was not on their list and then billed the  people whoes house  they let burnt down 19K.
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DaveR

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Re: Lincoln's Throat call out
« Reply #46 on: December 16, 2013, 07:56:45 PM »

it was Eric Eisle that wrote the story for the Sun. surprising that he missed that!

I was also surprised by that as he has guided in the past. Sent you a PM Al
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DaveR

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Re: Lincoln's Throat call out
« Reply #47 on: December 16, 2013, 08:11:23 PM »

there was annother fire incident this fire season in AZ  The fire company  hosed down the one house that was  on their list. they let the fire take the house next door that was not on their list and then billed the  people whoes house  they let burnt down 19K.

Tradman aint bullshitin!

http://www.firehouse.com/news/10472820/tennessee-fire-department-watches-house-burn-again
http://www.prescottaz.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&SubsectionID=1&ArticleID=102897

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tradmanclimbz

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Re: Lincoln's Throat call out
« Reply #48 on: December 17, 2013, 06:33:19 AM »

I was actually thinking of a different fire in AZ. must happen a lot there.. Got to love them red states ::)
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JBrochu

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Re: Lincoln's Throat call out
« Reply #49 on: December 17, 2013, 07:58:59 AM »

I was actually thinking of a different fire in AZ. must happen a lot there.. Got to love them red states ::)

They should have picked themselves up by their bootstraps, put their nose to the grindstone, and put the fire out themselves.  ::)
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darwined

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Re: Lincoln's Throat call out
« Reply #50 on: December 17, 2013, 10:57:39 AM »

I wonder if those folks in Arizona KNEW FULL WELL they weren't in the fire districts coverage area when they bought the home.  I  also wonder if they knew their insurance company wasn't going to reimburse them for the cost of the "out of district fees".  Sounds like a calculated "roll of the dice" if you ask me.  Isn't that the same thing as heading to Vegas and throwing the deed down on the Blackjack table?

But let's just burn the Tea Party at the stake!
« Last Edit: December 17, 2013, 11:08:10 AM by darwined »
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frik

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Re: Lincoln's Throat call out
« Reply #51 on: December 17, 2013, 11:03:42 AM »

Seems like every time there is a rescue we end up talking about how irresponsible the victim was. If the rescue involves a heilo, we end up having a debate/discussion about billing the victim. Not that long ago, there was no expectation of being rescued. Maybe if folks couldn't expect to be rescued, they wouldn't do such stoopid stuff, maybe they'd figure out how to extricate themselves. Not saying we should do away with rescues, but maybe limit them. Like - if you are out at night, you're on your own till morning.... doing away with copters seems like it gets rid of 90% of the money problem. Unless taxpayers are willing to fully fund rescue services.... which they aren't.
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frik

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Re: Lincoln's Throat call out
« Reply #52 on: December 17, 2013, 11:26:57 AM »

darwined;
 I think pretty much everyone out west who lives out in the sticks is rolling the dice. Fire, drought, hoppers.. snake invasions.....
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DaveR

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Re: Lincoln's Throat call out
« Reply #53 on: December 17, 2013, 11:38:52 AM »

Seems like every time there is a rescue we end up talking about how irresponsible the victim was. If the rescue involves a heilo, we end up having a debate/discussion about billing the victim. Not that long ago, there was no expectation of being rescued. Maybe if folks couldn't expect to be rescued, they wouldn't do such stoopid stuff, maybe they'd figure out how to extricate themselves. Not saying we should do away with rescues, but maybe limit them. Like - if you are out at night, you're on your own till morning.... doing away with copters seems like it gets rid of 90% of the money problem. Unless taxpayers are willing to fully fund rescue services.... which they aren't.

I agree, If it was not so easy to dial 911 and get a rescue more people might think about the consequences of screwing up.
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lucky luke

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Re: Lincoln's Throat call out
« Reply #54 on: December 17, 2013, 11:46:47 AM »

I mean the criticism we read in the report was that he made the mistake of "leaving the trail" and "traveling alone." So anybody soloing anything is now being irresponsible?[...]

I just don't trust a bureaucrat to decide who is incompetent or reckless. Also we waste so much money on corporate welfare a few rescues here and there are peanuts.

soloing is not for beginner. I didn't made my training this year and don't want to solo before I have do it. For you a beginner is someone who climb a grade four in lead, for me it is someone who master his technique from crampon to the hardiest one.

Accessibility: you can do every thing, just place a bolt...bring a compass.... be in bad shape...

What you said and what you did is so different that people who want to imitate the good climber are trap in problem...or death. It is what happen mostly in Quebec. Two climber train in sport route every week end and went to do an aid route. Both fall from the cliff because they wasn't tie in to the rock at every moment. Stupidity of the climber influence the coroner to say that it was a bad sling who was the cause of their death. Although, tie in with the rope and they had been with us today. Every other gear was still on the wall very carefully place after the fall. 

Many accident is due to the reckless of the model that people imitate...and it is not the fault of bureaucrat!!!
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steve weitzler

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Re: Lincoln's Throat call out
« Reply #55 on: December 17, 2013, 12:04:05 PM »

I agree, If it was not so easy to dial 911 and get a rescue more people might think about the consequences of screwing up.


That's right Dave. Let them sit in the cold awhile and think about their decisions. My guess is that less mistakes would be made. It is too easy to get a rescue. Once again I reference Doug Scott's crawl down the Ogre or Joe Simpson in the Andes. Being self-sufficient across all aspects of a climb is important and a necessary skill. One must realize that when they go climbing shit can happen and that they need to be able to figure it out themselves. If they can't or don't well that is the way it goes. My good friend Paul Duval had a saying after every day of climbing, "Well Steve, we live to climb another day."
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DaveR

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Re: Lincoln's Throat call out
« Reply #56 on: December 17, 2013, 12:31:18 PM »

One must realize that when they go climbing shit can happen and that they need to be able to figure it out themselves. If they can't or don't well that is the way it goes. My good friend Paul Duval had a saying after every day of climbing, "Well Steve, we live to climb another day."
 

When Megan S. and I were coaching for you Steve we had an incident in Donner pass after nationals that almost killed her! No one did a thing wrong, it was just shit luck that left us both shaking and we quit for the day. Just proves what Tom N. said to me once, If you climb long enough and hard enough it is likely that someday something will go very wrong even when you do things right and you better have your shit together and be ready for it.


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steve weitzler

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Re: Lincoln's Throat call out
« Reply #57 on: December 17, 2013, 01:05:48 PM »

So true. As I said, "shit happens."  Tom also had a great saying and I quote, "I'd rather die than be rescued." This from a guy who had his share of epics.
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DaveR

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Re: Lincoln's Throat call out
« Reply #58 on: December 17, 2013, 01:21:09 PM »

So true. As I said, "shit happens."  Tom also had a great saying and I quote, "I'd rather die than be rescued." This from a guy who had his share of epics.

Steve, Remember the bear story from when he was in Pakistan?
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lucky luke

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Re: Lincoln's Throat call out
« Reply #59 on: December 17, 2013, 01:28:06 PM »

One must realize that when they go climbing shit can happen and that they need to be able to figure it out themselves. If they can't or don't well that is the way it goes. My good friend Paul Duval had a saying after every day of climbing, "Well Steve, we live to climb another day."
  When Megan S. and I were coaching for you Steve we had an incident in Donner pass after nationals that almost killed her! No one did a thing wrong, it was just shit luck that left us both shaking and we quit for the day. Just proves what Tom N. said to me once, If you climb long enough and hard enough it is likely that someday something will go very wrong even when you do things right and you better have your shit together and be ready for it.

I agree. Long time ago, we talk about...don't remember the name. But it is mistake cause by human error and cause by the fact that shit happen in the mountain. (Note: if someone have a hold mountaineering freedom of the hill fifth edition, I will buy it, I lost mine) The problem it is that we have more accident cause by human mistake because they use a technique inappropriate for a situation...or stick on the problem because of what the other will think if they bail. Follow the advice of expert: look at the avy danger, bring your sleeping, a map, a compass, your climbing tool, a Sherpa...better a mule... and you need a rescue 

(Note: reckless model doesn't mean that the climber is not good or careless, it means that he show that any body can do what he do without learning the technique outside that he took many years to master. When one climber understand that he his a model for other and still push them to climb as hard as him, without all the basic that he learn, it is a problem. It is also self proclaim model, who are better than each of us the second year he climb.) 
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