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Author Topic: Rappel Anchors  (Read 717 times)

ralbert20

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Rappel Anchors
« on: December 16, 2013, 05:59:22 PM »

When you get to the top of a route, and there is no anchor set up, do you just rap off a tree, or do you leave a cordalette and a ring? When we did Elephant's head the other weekend, I didn't see a rap station at the big tree where I expected one, so I set one up. I left the ring and a cord tied with triple fishermen's. Likewise, if I see a bunch of tat, I will cut it off and replace it.

What do you all do? (And what knot do you use?)

-Rob
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Re: Rappel Anchors
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2013, 08:18:27 PM »

I've rapped off the tree at the top of EH many many times and I've never left anything up there. I use the branch that's up about 5' so the rope pulls easily. the way people take rap anchors around here I almost guarantee that cord won't last 3 weeks.
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ralbert20

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Re: Rappel Anchors
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2013, 08:12:00 AM »

Al - I just feel bad doing that. It seems like a heavily traveled route should have a better way to get down than damaging the tree. I left it because I thought maybe someone had taken on old unsafe one, and didn't replace it. I didn't think that people would steal it. Never occurred to me, but I suppose it should have.  :-\
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Jeff

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Re: Rappel Anchors
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2013, 09:40:03 AM »

ralbert20: I agree with you about not damaging the tree- I think good sling and ring anchors on places like EH should be left in place, (with the slings being replaced when necessary). I have replaced many; however, as Al said, I have returned to sites where I had left a sling and good ring less than 2 weeks before (I repeat routes with different clients) to find either nothing or a single thin cord sling with no ring :(--disappointing! If I'm with clients, I'll repeat the process-- $3 worth of material is a lot less than my life is worth, and IMHO less than the tree's life is worth as well.
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ralbert20

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Re: Rappel Anchors
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2013, 12:09:57 PM »

Jeff- what knot do you use? I always thought the triple fisherman/ water knot was good. Any better alternatives?
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Jeff

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Re: Rappel Anchors
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2013, 01:31:30 PM »

Depends on the cord, but I usually use a double fisherman-- I only used the triple on the old spectra cord (per Black Diamond's recommendation)  that I used to use to tie off through the holes in rigid stem Friends at the Gunks, BITD. I only use a water knot on tape slings, and then I make sure my tails are AT LEAST 4 inches long and 6 inches long if I can. I also always check the entire length of the loop on any in situ slings before rapping on them-- I've found far too many slings frayed (or rodent gnawed) somewhere along the length, here in New England and all over the west, to take a chance-- sling material is cheap in my mind! Call me over careful, but I'm still here, after 4+ decades of climbing (and backing off safely) 8)
« Last Edit: December 17, 2013, 01:33:35 PM by Jeff »
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lucky luke

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Re: Rappel Anchors
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2013, 01:39:31 PM »

I've rapped off the tree at the top of EH many many times and I've never left anything up there. I use the branch that's up about 5' so the rope pulls easily. the way people take rap anchors around here I almost guarantee that cord won't last 3 weeks.

the problem: the water go to the leaves, in summer, through the bark of the tree and nutrient produce by the leave go down to the root by the center of the tree. It is the inverse in the root and a root can be used to rap. As you pull the rope, the bark are cut. After many rap, the water can't go to the leaves and the tree died.

In waterfall ice, he explain how to make a bolar. A V thread is also an other solution. For the sling around the three...at Yosemite, at the end of the year, they remove every piece of sling that they found every where.

Making an anchor with two huge bolt that will go over the ice and where you can use your PAS, the best???
« Last Edit: December 17, 2013, 11:09:34 PM by lucky luke »
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DLottmann

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Re: Rappel Anchors
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2013, 08:28:15 PM »

Making an anchor with two huge bolt that will go over the ice and where you can use your PAS, the best???

Um... no. That would be the worse solution. Maybe this was in jest.

To the TC, thanks for setting something up. The fixed anchor that was there may have been buried? Either way, the best solution on that route IMO is some 7mm static tied up high in the center tree with a double fisherman's, two rap rings, replaced every few years.

I've seen at least 8 different anchors there in the last 10 years... it's just the nature of a 1 pitch roadside climb with no easy walk off...

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sneoh

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Re: Rappel Anchors
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2013, 08:37:49 PM »

OK, I admit this is a bit of a silly question because I see this too on rock climbs.
Who and for what reason would one remove some slings or tag lines and two rap rings from a solid tree suitable for rappelling?
I can understand if it is for "aesthetics" but I suspect, more often than not, it is for other reasons.
Enlighten me!
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The other tomcat

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Re: Rappel Anchors
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2013, 07:59:21 AM »

I have removed them at times, particularly in Crawford and at Oscar, because they were critter damaged. Some at Oscar more than once.
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Tom Stryker

Pete Jackson

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Re: Rappel Anchors
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2013, 11:37:22 AM »

OK, I admit this is a bit of a silly question because I see this too on rock climbs.
Who and for what reason would one remove some slings or tag lines and two rap rings from a solid tree suitable for rappelling?
I can understand if it is for "aesthetics" but I suspect, more often than not, it is for other reasons.
Enlighten me!

The tree anchors at Rumney are rapidly disappearing (e.g. Clip-A-Dee no longer has a top rappel anchor, not that it needed one in the first place). From what I gather, it's out of concern that the bark will be damaged by slings, even on stout trees. I have no idea how much truth this argument holds, but some of our mutual friends have mentioned it: so I give it some credence.

In any case, tree anchors don't make much sense in a sport area. :D

I have removed them at times, particularly in Crawford and at Oscar, because they were critter damaged. Some at Oscar more than once.

I can second the critter damage argument. I've noticed that a lot of ground-level rap slings get gnawed. Much better to tie the slings higher in the tree, where they will likely see less damage (although critters can climb trees).

In all cases, I hate bright red rappel slings. Does nobody sell green and brown webbing any more?

Making an anchor with two huge bolt that will go over the ice and where you can use your PAS, the best???
Um... no. That would be the worse solution. Maybe this was in jest.

I think that was in jest! Zing! Good one!

There are actually some lousy, chossy sport routes out here that were purposefully bolted right next to where excellent ice pillars form in the winter. No comment on that practice.
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Admin Al

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Re: Rappel Anchors
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2013, 12:05:06 PM »

as best I can tell, there are just people who either;

1) resent slings on climbs,

2) believe that it encourages top roping,

3) want the sling/cord and rings for themselves and don't mind stealing them

IMNSHO all of the above reasons are BS... the ONLY valid reason for removing an existing sling from a tree is because it's compromised. i.e. about once I year I climb Standard Route on Whitehorse via the "pinch" at the top of the arch. when I do I always bring some cord and a knife to replace some of the stuff that's been up there for several years. I also always have a "leaver" piece of sling and an old beiner that I am willing to use to replace slings where I determine that the existing ancho has been gnawed or is compromised in some way.

YMMV
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Al Hospers
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eyebolter

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Re: Rappel Anchors
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2013, 12:20:49 PM »


3) want the sling/cord and rings for themselves and don't mind stealing them




Other than a few ethical purists, I think 90% of the thefts are for this reason.   Generally knuckleheads who want free gear and don't care (and/or are unaware) that they might kill the tree in the process.  The same reason people take biners off the anchors at sport areas: because they can lower off the single quick-links (twisting the crap out of their ropes) and will have TWO FREE CRAPPY BINERS!  WHOO HOOO!


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strandman

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Re: Rappel Anchors
« Reply #13 on: December 20, 2013, 12:25:05 PM »

Why not a chain ?
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sneoh

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Re: Rappel Anchors
« Reply #14 on: December 20, 2013, 04:08:02 PM »

Thanks all.  I've learned a lot and confirmed some suspicions.
Pete, I am sure one can still buy dull-colored flat webbing. I've gotten light brown and light grey sewn nylon slings which I do not mind leaving behind if I have to.  I've thrown away all my bright colored Dyneema slings. As for Clippa Dee do Dah, it is faster and less disruptive to parties coming up to walk down from the top. 


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