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Author Topic: Avalanche on Mount Washington  (Read 1945 times)

JBrochu

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Re: Avalanche on Mount Washington
« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2013, 10:37:19 PM »

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JBrochu

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Re: Avalanche on Mount Washington
« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2013, 11:05:25 PM »

The article was correct for both Saturday (pre-accident) and Sunday (post-accident).

A chance that the avalanche occur saturday at 5h30, if it was at 7 hours in the evening (tweve hours from both advisory) we won't know which advisory is good!!!

I understand. They made the post on saturday to sunday morning... and sunday morning, at seven approximately, the condition change dramatically to moderate and anybody would have been able to go in the cliff.

I respect the science behind the advisory and it is a good thing to have it. It is just a tool, but knowing the mitigation technique and practice them is a lot safer than a sign.




Are you suggesting that these hikers somehow had a premonition that the advisory would change from considerable to moderate before it was even posted the following morning so therefore they decided to proceed over the headwall without taking due caution?

The most likely scenario (without knowing for sure) is that these hikers didn't have any avalanche awareness skills and most likely didn't check the avalanche forecast before starting their hike. I believe the article stated they intended to ascend and descend via Lion's Head. The fact they took so long and also got off route suggests that, like most other winter hikers in New England, they probably didn't have avalanche awareness skills.

The forecast is fairly meaningless to this discussion. The only reason I posted the quote was to correct the misleading quote you posted.
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Have a quiche, now, or maybe a tort.  You deserve it!
-bristolpipe

I like to keep things simple, even if it's faaaken painful and miserable.
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lucky luke

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Re: Avalanche on Mount Washington
« Reply #17 on: December 31, 2013, 01:55:44 AM »

Are you suggesting that these hikers somehow had a premonition that the advisory would change from considerable to moderate before it was even posted the following morning so therefore they decided to proceed over the headwall without taking due caution?

"The duo were separated from a pair of fellow hikers and missed a turn on a trail because of low visibility and unknowingly entered an avalanche area known as ďthe Lip,Ē triggering the avalanche that carried them to the bottom of Tuckerman Ravine, said U.S. Forest Service spokeswoman Colleen Mainville."

Here I don't know why the duo were separated from a pair of fellow hikers. The advisory here is completely not on topic. If you enter an area of avalanche...and there is still snow on it...low or high danger is, for me, the same. I have been there in many withe out (visibility zero) and I most say that it is enjoyable to feel the element. But I just came from a walk in snow under zero from my work. The weather here is very similar to those on Mt Washington with wind around fifty miles per hours some days. I ice climbed at minus 4 or 5.

I don't say that to show off, but if you go up there, you most be ready. And knowing the mitigation technique is one way to be ready. Of course, a good knowledge of the place...follow the cairn to a very big rock where you pass by the left and where you can have some protection against the wind... it is route finding that we talk in trad rock-n-roll!!! Knowing the direction of the wind with the interference of the mountain to follow a direction. Keep the wind in your back or at fifty degree... I don't know if they had all that knowledge.

Why the people don't stay together at the top of the mountain and why both party didn't came back to the wood together? For me, it is the last think I went to do...walking with a slow unprepared hiker. But it is what save people and make them stronger. 

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darwined

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Re: Avalanche on Mount Washington
« Reply #18 on: December 31, 2013, 06:58:52 AM »

"Low or high danger it is, for me, the same."

It should be no mystery, for you,  why no one will ever take your posts seriously.
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markvnh

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Re: Avalanche on Mount Washington
« Reply #19 on: December 31, 2013, 08:16:54 AM »

Time to send these bozo's a bill! From a Boston Herald first person article:

We got to the summit, and then on the way down we ran into our friends and they were going to the summit and asked for us to wait. ... But the wind was going 70 miles per hour and there was a negative 20 wind chill. We decided that we had to keep moving. (We) were not familiar with Mount Washington at all, so when we came to the split between Lionís Head and Tuckerman Ravine, we decided to take Tuckerman Ravine because thatís where I thought we came from.

What a joke. I think we need a southern border crossing checkpoint in NH! I know, they could have been from anywhere. Stupid knows no boundaries.
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frik

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Re: Avalanche on Mount Washington
« Reply #20 on: December 31, 2013, 08:28:34 AM »

Sneoh,
Anyone who writes this:

"I think that it is not luck that save them. Climbing up hill in an avalanche slab and you have all the snow which burry you. Going down hill and just few feet of snow is over you if the crost broke at the top. I most say that the trail of Lyon head and lip is very similar. The difference is the cairn. when there is no cairn...it is a problem."

is retarded.... sorry but the diagnosis stands.
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markvnh

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Re: Avalanche on Mount Washington
« Reply #22 on: December 31, 2013, 10:51:32 AM »

...at least most of the articles are referring to them as hikers and not climbers.
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lucky luke

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Re: Avalanche on Mount Washington
« Reply #23 on: December 31, 2013, 10:53:35 AM »

http://www.conwaydailysun.com/index.php/newsx/local-news/110668-rescue-123113

for me it is leadership fault;
1- at the bottom before the climb: Be sure that all the climber have the right equipment for the weather. Look at the forecast for the next 12 hours and the last three days.

2- On the climb, keep the party together, that means that one guy take the decision and the other follow the leadership. Of course, there is eight kind of leadership and not al person like a kind of leadership

3- Know your partner before going in the mountain. irony...to know your partner, you most climb with them. the question is how could you know how a person will react when is life is threatening???

In fact, the accident bring a more interesting question???

what is leadership?

Not a sign...please!!!
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DLottmann

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Re: Avalanche on Mount Washington
« Reply #24 on: December 31, 2013, 11:01:05 AM »

You really hate signs huh? The rest of the climbing/skiing community sees the bulletin as very useful and incorporates it into their decision making. You can continue to shun it, at your own peril.

I agree "mitigation" as you call it is important, but ignoring the advice of professionals is crazy. I know I can't change your mind, so I limit my effort to these 5 sentences.
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Pete Jackson

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Re: Avalanche on Mount Washington
« Reply #25 on: December 31, 2013, 11:18:06 AM »

(We) were not familiar with Mount Washington at all, so when we came to the split between Lionís Head and Tuckerman Ravine, we decided to take Tuckerman Ravine because thatís where I thought we came from.

I reserved my opinion until reading this sentence. Generally speaking, I think we give people too hard a time when they end up in a bad situation. Not in this case, though. I hope the victims of the avalanche are reading and learning.

Do not hike in an area where you are not familiar. Explore new places, sure, but for certain study the maps, trail names, intended route, and any alternate routes ahead of time. Being prepared means more than bringing a backpack and a parka. Missing a key 90-degree left-hand turn in the route, especially when the consequences put you right into extremely dangerous terrain, is a very amateur mistake.

I hope the hikers will consider hiring a guide next time they are hiking one of the most dangerous mountains in the northeast in the winter.
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DLottmann

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Re: Avalanche on Mount Washington
« Reply #26 on: December 31, 2013, 11:55:45 AM »

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eyebolter

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Re: Avalanche on Mount Washington
« Reply #27 on: December 31, 2013, 07:46:41 PM »

"Injured and disoriented, the pair didn't know where they were, Carus said. They were unfamiliar with the terrain, and in the dark without maps or headlamps, he said, "they didn't know how to get out." They decided to climb back up to the lip, unaware that they could escape the bowl from the bottom. They made it about 200 feet uphill, Carus said, to the top of Lunch Rocks, before they stopped."

After the fall they tried to climb back up?   Oh boy....
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tstorm11

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Re: Avalanche on Mount Washington
« Reply #28 on: December 31, 2013, 08:20:24 PM »

Watch...In like 20 years these idiots will be on the cover of Alpinist and speaking at ice fests about some amazing FA on some unclimbed face in like India talking about the stupid shit they did when they were young....

But I doubt it... ;D
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