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Author Topic: how do YOU cut weight from your kit?  (Read 2943 times)

Pete Jackson

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Re: how do YOU cut weight from your kit?
« Reply #45 on: January 20, 2014, 10:23:05 AM »

reference: see the text on familarity heuristic. every body do it, so it most be true... not always true.

Everything old is new again. Again, we're talking about heuristic clues. Maybe I should bring up ethics and norms just for good measure. :P

When I go ice climbing, I bring a cotton t-shirt. I leave it in the car with a full nalgene and change in to it right before I hydrate.

I carry two synthetic base layers: I change from my soaked one in to a dry one at the base of the route, after the long hike in. Yes: I go down to bare skin in freezing temps, but only once, and only at the part of the trip where I am likely to be warmest (after hiking miles uphill with a heavy pack).

As was mentioned before in this thread: the best way to carry a lighter load into the backcountry is to lose weight. If you can lose ten pounds and still be healthy, you can carry an extra t-shirt or two, cotton or otherwise. If you are already in peak shape and are trying to shave weight, I'd steal some hints from the ultralight-backpacker movement. Start with the Ray Jardine site: (remember the guy who invented SLCDs?) http://www.rayjardine.com/index.shtml

Some things the crazies who practice ultralight backpacking do that might be useful:

1. Don't take a multitool, take a razor blade.
2. Lighten up your medical kit.
3. Take everything out of the original containers and use lightweight baggies or small stuff sacks.
4. Trade your heavy fleece hat for the lightest warm one you can find. I wear the Mountain Gear windstopper one that weighs almost nothing.

When you get back from a climbing trip, dump your pack on the ground in your shop and sort your gear in to piles: 1) stuff you used 2) stuff you didn't use and 3) stuff you didn't use, but is emergency gear that you're taking next time no matter what. Then make some decisions.

I think LL's take on cotton is strange: but it looks like he's thought it through and developed the technique over a long period of time. I am glad to see he warned people off of it as not recommended. Please don't haul 10 cotton t-shirts around in winter and change them every couple hours unless you really understand what you're doing. However, I agree with LL on one point: leaving gear behind to shave weight on winter trips is risky. Much better to shave weight from your body if you can.
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JBrochu

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Re: how do YOU cut weight from your kit?
« Reply #46 on: January 20, 2014, 11:07:59 AM »

backpackinglight.com is better than the Jardine site imo for ultralight hiking gear tips and methods.

For the people recommending losing weight: I always have between 10 and 40 pounds I could stand to lose because I'm retarded. Anyway, I got into UL/SUL backpacking several years back and took part of my kit on a climbing trip for an alpine route. I was showing off my expensive cuben fiber tarp and other high tech stuff and one of my buddies says, "John that stuff looks pretty nice and all, but wouldn't it be a lot cheaper to just lose 20 pounds."  :P


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lucky luke

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Re: how do YOU cut weight from your kit?
« Reply #47 on: January 20, 2014, 11:29:18 AM »

apparently too big and too long for you to comprehend.  LL agrees with most of what you are saying but he has explained how he has made cotton work for him despite that and the advantages doing that provide him.

thank you Old Eric

safety first. open the way to solid discussion.

Thank you also to Pete Jackson. giving the credit to an other even if you disagree or agree that it can work for other, even if you not use the technique, is important for the climbing community.   



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frik

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Re: how do YOU cut weight from your kit?
« Reply #48 on: January 20, 2014, 11:35:56 AM »

Other than the weight loss thing, which is true. I think the best way to shed freight is just to get a lot better at climbing... especially being faster. The more confident you are, the faster you are, the more crap you can/should leave at home. I would be very cautious about looking for insights from the light weight hiking crowd... follow their advice and soon you'll be drilling lightening holes in your carrabiners and replacing your harness with a swami made with surveyors tape. 
 
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JBrochu

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Re: how do YOU cut weight from your kit?
« Reply #49 on: January 20, 2014, 11:36:20 AM »

LL why don't you just use a vapor barrier shirt and keep a dry shirt for camp? Lighter than 10 t shirts, and works better if that's the method you're after.
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Have a quiche, now, or maybe a tort.  You deserve it!
-bristolpipe

I like to keep things simple, even if it's faaaken painful and miserable.
-Stoney Middleton

This is grain, which any fool can eat, but for which the Lord intended a more divine means of consumption.
-Friar Tuck

frik

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Re: how do YOU cut weight from your kit?
« Reply #50 on: January 20, 2014, 11:52:35 AM »

JB; Do not argue with LL, he has a Master's degree in Biology !

It is a fruitless endeavor.

 
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pappy

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Re: how do YOU cut weight from your kit?
« Reply #51 on: January 20, 2014, 12:07:45 PM »

I would be very cautious about looking for insights from the light weight hiking crowd...

The ultra light crowd leave very little margin for error; every spring when a storm hits the southern AT or
 southern CA aspiring thru hikers get in trouble, especially those who just go to the websites and follow things religiously without knowing what an April snowstorm on St. Jacinto is going to be like (I found out, we got lost on the north side in a storm, started into hyperthermia, but fortunately found a closed YMCA camp and broke into the director's cabin. '81, I think the statute of limitations has expired).
But we did a lot of the ultra light stuff even then, cut the tags out of our clothes, and like Pete mentioned, repackaged 6 mos. worth of food into baggies. We would go to the grocery store at midnight after splitting 5-6 bottles of wine between four of us, so my GF and I were pretty lit and would just buy whatever seemed might be interesting. Months later we would get our pre-packaged box of food with bags of stuff we didn't recognize with no directions, so it was always, 'WTF is this, and what do we do with it?' It led to some interesting meals.
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JBrochu

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Re: how do YOU cut weight from your kit?
« Reply #52 on: January 20, 2014, 12:45:56 PM »

You can go pretty light these days (backpacking that is) and still be as prepared as most traditional backpackers. I'm down to about a 6 pound base weight for 3 season backpacking in New England, and there are tons more people on the trail more likely to get into deep doo doo than me. Of course that's only my opinion.

Anyway, I cut corners the most on the safety kit but I never carried much of that anyway even when I was lugging around the kitchen sink.

A lot of thru hikers on the AT in springtime are very inexperienced. But maybe that was your point?
« Last Edit: January 20, 2014, 12:47:30 PM by JBrochu »
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Have a quiche, now, or maybe a tort.  You deserve it!
-bristolpipe

I like to keep things simple, even if it's faaaken painful and miserable.
-Stoney Middleton

This is grain, which any fool can eat, but for which the Lord intended a more divine means of consumption.
-Friar Tuck

JBrochu

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Re: how do YOU cut weight from your kit?
« Reply #53 on: January 20, 2014, 12:55:11 PM »

JB; Do not argue with LL, he has a Master's degree in Biology !

It is a fruitless endeavor.

I thought his degree had something to do with snow crystal formation on the spotted salamander hive?
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Have a quiche, now, or maybe a tort.  You deserve it!
-bristolpipe

I like to keep things simple, even if it's faaaken painful and miserable.
-Stoney Middleton

This is grain, which any fool can eat, but for which the Lord intended a more divine means of consumption.
-Friar Tuck

Flotsam

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Re: how do YOU cut weight from your kit?
« Reply #54 on: January 20, 2014, 05:52:14 PM »

For beer I've gone from packing glass to cans now that the canned options has increased. 


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strandman

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Re: how do YOU cut weight from your kit?
« Reply #55 on: January 20, 2014, 06:38:47 PM »

Right flotsam... and if your aid climbing, the bottles are easy to break.

I agree with frik- get fast, leave shit home.
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lucky luke

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Re: how do YOU cut weight from your kit?
« Reply #56 on: January 20, 2014, 07:39:02 PM »

LL why don't you just use a vapor barrier shirt and keep a dry shirt for camp? Lighter than 10 t shirts, and works better if that's the method you're after.

As I said, and as old people know, I used for long time silk shirt. Silk act a little bit like a vapor barier. Silk is more permeable and some people can try an aluminium foll or plastic  bag as vapor barier. But there is a problem. When you sweat a lot, the water condense on the vapor barier and fall to the ground. It is like if you pee in your pan.

I don't sugest any body to try the vapor barier like those we found in our house. sponge is a lot better.

Yes the cotton t-shirt is like a vapor barier. As the cotton keep the water close to the body, the skin "produce" less water and you most have a way to eliminate the extra heat that you produce (by the head for example)
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strandman

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Re: how do YOU cut weight from your kit?
« Reply #57 on: January 21, 2014, 09:25:47 AM »

Um... you may want to read about Warmlite/Stephenson products (made in NH) they know a bit about vapor barrier .
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lucky luke

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Re: how do YOU cut weight from your kit?
« Reply #58 on: January 21, 2014, 07:19:57 PM »

Um... you may want to read about Warmlite/Stephenson products (made in NH) they know a bit about vapor barrier .

Yes, it could be interesting to have comment on vapor barrier from them

As I understand it a vapor barier is: "A vapor barrier (or vapour barrier) is often used to refer to any material for damp proofing, typically a plastic or foil sheet, that resists diffusion of moisture through wall, ceiling and floor assemblies of buildings and of packaging. Technically, many of these materials are only vapor retarders as they have varying degrees of permeability". Cotton most be, in the way I use it, as a vapor retarders. The good time to change the t-shirt is a little bit tricky.
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sneoh

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Re: how do YOU cut weight from your kit?
« Reply #59 on: January 21, 2014, 07:35:48 PM »

Champ, retarder or not, I think the crux issue is cotton fibers can absorb many times their own weight of water.  Most people do not like a wet, clammy piece of clothing next to our skin while out and about.  You are clearly not like most so if you insist cotton works for you, then who is to argue? 

Oh, teenages wear flimsy shoes and short skirts in the winter not because they are "adapted" to the cold.  No, it is because other things are more important to them than being adeqautely dressed for the cold.  How come you do not know this already? 
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