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Author Topic: how do YOU cut weight from your kit?  (Read 2553 times)

darwined

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how do YOU cut weight from your kit?
« on: January 13, 2014, 10:49:56 PM »

I was wondering if anyone had tips for cutting weight from your backcountry setup that you were particularly proud of?
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Re: how do YOU cut weight from your kit?
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2014, 06:24:00 PM »

Carry less!
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DLottmann

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Re: how do YOU cut weight from your kit?
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2014, 07:40:42 PM »

Can you clarify? "Backcountry" to me makes me think skiing... are you talking remote ice climbs? Like what do we carry for something like Drool of the Beast?

Gonna assume remote ice climbs and answer anyways:

1) Pre-hydrate. I only carry 1 32 oz bottle for a full day of ice climbing. I compensate by hydrating like a fool the night before. Normally I drink a 32oz bottle around dinner time (interspersed with beer or wine), then go to bed with a full Nalgene on the nightstand. I'll need to get up 2-3 times to urinate, at which points I'll drink about 1/3 of the Nalgene. The goal is for it to be empty by morning. Then I drink 1 more 32oz bottle on the way to the trail-head. So climbing with only 1 32 oz bottle for a full 8-10 hour day is quite reasonable if you start off that hydrated... Even with a triple Americano to start the day I'm peeing crystal clear...

2) Clothing... only piece of clothing in my ice pack is my puffy and a warmer pair of gloves for end of day...

3) Screws: switching to almost all 13cm's this season with a few longer ones for belays...

4) Biner's, except for a few lockers all super light wiregates... Petzl Ange S & L's

5) Slings: I'll take flak but lots of dyneema alpine draws... only a couple double length nylon slings...

6) Less Screamers.... used to carry lots... now only 2... lead falls on ice in 10+ years = zero (knock on wood), so felt like I was being a bit too paranoid... now I only use screamers on the first couple screws...

7) Rope... 9.4 is the fattest rope I want to ice climb on, except for TR. Prefer leading on 9.1 or 9.2 if it is a pure ice route...

8) Backpack... Wild Things Ice Sack or similiar CCW... light & simple....

All I can think of for now... but basically when I am racked up my backpack weighs less than 6 pounds (first aid kit, water bottle, belay jacket, yummy food).

 
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sneoh

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Re: how do YOU cut weight from your kit?
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2014, 09:01:52 PM »

Can you clarify? "Backcountry" to me makes me think skiing... are you talking remote ice climbs? Like what do we carry for something like Drool of the Beast?

Gonna assume remote ice climbs and answer anyways:

1) Pre-hydrate. I only carry 1 32 oz bottle for a full day of ice climbing. I compensate by hydrating like a fool the night before. Normally I drink a 32oz bottle around dinner time (interspersed with beer or wine), then go to bed with a full Nalgene on the nightstand. I'll need to get up 2-3 times to urinate, at which points I'll drink about 1/3 of the Nalgene. The goal is for it to be empty by morning. Then I drink 1 more 32oz bottle on the way to the trail-head. So climbing with only 1 32 oz bottle for a full 8-10 hour day is quite reasonable if you start off that hydrated...

7) Rope... 9.4 is the fattest rope I want to ice climb on, except for TR. Prefer leading on 9.1 or 9.2 if it is a pure ice route...

All I can think of for now... but basically when I am racked up my backpack weighs less than 6 pounds (first aid kit, water bottle, belay jacket, yummy food).

Yeah, 1) will save you a lot of weight.  It is not that easy to do for me tho.  I've tried; that 32 oz in the morning after or with coffee is tough to stomach. 
9.4mm?  That's for rock too?  I can't bring myself to lead on anything less than 9.8mm.
Six pounds for the backpack with all that stuff?  That is LIGHT.  My pack might be four empty :(
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DLottmann

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Re: how do YOU cut weight from your kit?
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2014, 09:59:27 PM »

Yeah, 1) will save you a lot of weight.  It is not that easy to do for me tho.  I've tried; that 32 oz in the morning after or with coffee is tough to stomach. 
9.4mm?  That's for rock too?  I can't bring myself to lead on anything less than 9.8mm.
Six pounds for the backpack with all that stuff?  That is LIGHT.  My pack might be four empty :(

I hear that. Sometimes I only make it through half that bottle and leave the rest in the car for when I get back...

9.4mm... yes, I was talking ice, though I climb most rock when not guiding on 9.4 (not whipping all day on sport routes).

If your pack weighs 4 pounds empty you need a pack more specific to climbing... easily shave 2 pounds there...

For ice : WildThings Guide Pack: 28 ounces: http://www.wildthingsgear.com/products/guide-pack

For rock: Black Diamond Hollow Point (1lb 10oz) http://www.ems.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3654951&kw=3654951&sr=1&origkw=3654951
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sneoh

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Re: how do YOU cut weight from your kit?
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2014, 10:49:45 PM »

Thanks DMan for the recomm.
I am too old to whip on anything, just scared of skinny ropes.
In reality, my Milllet is pretty big but minimalist (which I like) and is unlikely more than 3 lb.
I like to put everything including rope into the pack altho lately we've been dividing it up; one person carries the rope and food while the other the sport rack and water bottles for both.  Significantly faster.
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triguy

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Re: how do YOU cut weight from your kit?
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2014, 08:27:23 AM »

Stop eating like crap and lose 5lbs off your gut. Cheapest way to cut weight.

Learned this lesson the hard way trying to get my road bike weight down - spent tons of money shaving a few lbs. one day at the bike shop I asked the manager what I could do to shave weight....he looked me up and down and told me to go stand in front of the mirror.

Other than that, evaluate your pack after a day out and leave behind the items you did not use.
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markvnh

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Re: how do YOU cut weight from your kit?
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2014, 10:13:41 AM »

Those 5 pounds seem to creep up every winter on me!

I actually started using my CCW Ozone - which is essentially a crag pack - in the winter unless its really cold out and I take extra, extra clothing and then use my Chernobyl. In my Ozone I can get ice screws, draws, slings, crampons, harness, belay jacket, gloves, hats and a water bottle in the pack. I stuff food and snacks in the lid zippered sections. Tools go sideways underneath the lid (hadn't been doing this until I saw Dane from Cold Thistle doing this - before I would actually put the tools inside the pack on each side with the picks facing rear - both work). Helmet gets strapped under the lid or on the back through the lid strap. If I'm carrying the rope it goes under the lid.

This works and I usually don't feel as though I've compromised leaving anything behind. With that said I would bet that if I took out my Chernobyl I'd fill the damn thing up and it would weigh what my partners packs weigh!
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strandman

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Re: how do YOU cut weight from your kit?
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2014, 10:18:05 AM »

Read Wildthings old blurb light is right, if you can find it...more wisdom in one page than anything.

i read it in'81 and it still holds true.
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lucky luke

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Re: how do YOU cut weight from your kit?
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2014, 10:45:17 AM »

I was wondering if anyone had tips for cutting weight from your backcountry setup that you were particularly proud of?

Safety first, mt washington can be dangerous even for just a day. In quebec, more than one american came back with frozen feet, not just the toe, black blue color to the ankle.

In back country light, 2009, one day hike by lyon, just to have a great day (back packing light...so it is cutting weight) They suggest: 2 16oz Nalgene Wide Mouth 8, 1 40 Below Bottle Insulator 3. In fact, personally, I bring two insulator bottle with sugar tea in it for energy. This is quite different than what they suggest here: 2 16 oz nalgene. Futermore, drinking the day before won't gave you good results as what you want is hydrate the interstitial space between the cells. I used not to drink alcool and less coffee seven days before a long back country. In general, the interstitial space take three days to be full if you drink about six quarts a day...and the important is to take small sip to equal what you lost by transpiration and what you transform from lipid (lipid degradation in your body produce water)

Reynold Mesner had the more interesting suggestion: if you want to know if you will need a piece of equipment, leave it at home in a day that you must need it and do a climb that you did before. If you wish to have it, it is because it is essential. And as you know the route, it is less dangerous than following a set of rules wrote in a forum. There is a lot of trick that work for some one, but not for an other. For example, I always use cotton as a under layer. When my T-shirt is wet, I changed it and place an other one, which act as a sponge for water and keep my other layer dry. It is like neoprene suit for diver. It is not recommended.

Begin with full pack and remove item as you go. If you climb twelve route in a winter and don't need a compass, that doesn't means that the thirteen time won't be your last.

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xcrag_corex

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Re: how do YOU cut weight from your kit?
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2014, 11:27:06 AM »

LL, how many "extra" cotton shirts do you bring? What if you sweat through multiple and are later benighted?
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hobbsj

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Re: how do YOU cut weight from your kit?
« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2014, 12:11:29 PM »

LL stick with the big picture.  You usually have good advice at that level, but once you start trying to delve in to things too much, you end up way off.  Especially with the science stuff.  You're right on that hydrating extensively the day before is not really effective and that the best plan before a big day is to start several days out.  But after that, you're not really accurate with your information.  Unfortunately, putting out mis-inforomation like that leads individuals to draw further incorrect conclusions that may have a significant impact on their decision making.
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sneoh

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Re: how do YOU cut weight from your kit?
« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2014, 02:13:23 PM »

... hydrating extensively the day before is not really effective and that the best plan before a big day is to start several days out. 
Good to know and I will keep that in mind.
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"You have to decide to do a flag, where you can broke your vertebrae or a barn door depending of your pro" - the poster formerly known as Champ

DLottmann

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Re: how do YOU cut weight from your kit?
« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2014, 06:11:36 PM »

... I always use cotton as a under layer. When my T-shirt is wet, I changed it and place an other one, which act as a sponge for water and keep my other layer dry. ...

 :o

So you strip down to skin to change a soaked cotton t-shirt... yes... very efficient energy wise...

#notsurprisedbyluckyluke
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lucky luke

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Re: how do YOU cut weight from your kit?
« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2014, 07:24:03 PM »

LL, how many "extra" cotton shirts do you bring? What if you sweat through multiple and are later benighted?

Many climber do that. They bring t-shirt in there pack. The weight of ten T-shirt.... not a lot. After a long hike, when I am close to the rest place, before I stopped, I changed my t-shirt, so I can change an other time at the bivouac without problem and be a lot dryer than with specialise garment.

I wear some think on my skin, a Tshirt, I had an old silk layer that I used many years which keep the water into the cotton, open my clothes to be in equilibrum with the environment (energy produce by the activity versus temperature need to be confortable). At rest, I have my clothes closer to me and dry. It is exactly what I have. And as I stop before the bivouac, i can built my warm even if we are below zero.

The cotton is a question of choice, but also a misunderstanding of the principle of body regulation. In a warm day, at 102 degree, what your body is going to do? The body make transpiration and at the surface of your skin, the water is changed in vapor by the energy in your skin. So, the use of energy at the surface of your body to transform water to vapor cool you down in winter. Is it different in winter. You make an exercise, you sweat. Your garment expulse the water outside your jacket. You use energy to transform the water in vapor. The energy use is the heat of your body. So, you decrease the heat of your body with hydrofuge garment.

Easy to understand, but not so easy to find the good equilibrum in practice.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2014, 09:19:52 PM by lucky luke »
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