Author Topic: 4 rescued from Mt. Washington last night  (Read 2915 times)

DLottmann

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Re: 4 rescued from Mt. Washington last night
« Reply #60 on: January 23, 2014, 02:17:49 PM »
I agree with you 100% LL... and that was the most clear and spot on post I have ever read from you.

Has hell finally frozen over? Kinda felt like it this morning...  :D

Offline frik

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Re: 4 rescued from Mt. Washington last night
« Reply #61 on: January 23, 2014, 02:43:23 PM »
OK Luke, mountains are not dangerous, but they are risky. I bow to your unsurpassed skills as a rhetorician.

Offline danf

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Re: 4 rescued from Mt. Washington last night
« Reply #62 on: January 23, 2014, 05:01:34 PM »
However, the actual costs of the card in terms of printing, distribution, education, advertising, filing, fund administration, etc...
My guess is, the most practical way to do it would be to make it an "add-on" to the online hunt/fish licensing system.  Basically it could be like buying a hunt/fish license but you have the option to buy the card separate from the licenses or possibly in conjunction with the licenses.  BUT, that makes too much sense to me so F&G being a government entity probably will come up with something entirely different to sell the damn things.

The problem that I see with the card is that it will be just like the cell phones for some people, making them MORE likely to call for a rescue when they really shouldn't need one in the first place...

darwined

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Re: 4 rescued from Mt. Washington last night
« Reply #63 on: January 23, 2014, 07:24:36 PM »
Ding ding ding! Good idea

DLottmann

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Re: 4 rescued from Mt. Washington last night
« Reply #64 on: January 23, 2014, 08:39:10 PM »
Appropriately enough - in today's Union Leader:
...
The Fish and Game Department and lawmakers have tried for years to find additional revenue to cover the cost of search and rescue operations, which cost more than $300,000 a year.

Currently $1 from boat, snowmobile and off-road vehicle registration fees go into the fund, which raises about $180,000 a year. The shortfall comes out of the general fish and game fund, which is revenue from hunting and fishing licenses.
...

You know I don't know exactly what these vehicle registration fees cost, but if only 1$ goes into the fund, and that raises $180,000 a year, leaving a shortfall of $120,000/year, raising the registration fee by only $1 would easily cover the shortfall...

I know, this isn't passing the burden on to climbers, but how many boat, snowmobile, and off-road vehicle owners are really going to care about a $1 a year increase in their registration fees? Maybe a lot... but I really doubt it.

That also means there are 180,000 people registering these vehicles... there are not 180,000 winter mountaineer's/ice climbers in NH...

I would buy a card if this bill passes, but I share the concerns already voiced that having a card may make some people feel entitled to a rescue, even when they could get out themselves... The simpler fix would be to just raise the above mentioned fees by a buck, and continue to seek some donation to S&R in cases that appear frivolous...

Offline The other tomcat

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Re: 4 rescued from Mt. Washington last night
« Reply #65 on: January 23, 2014, 08:46:46 PM »
Just thinking out loud here...people always joke about the money guides make, then it seems they do most of the heavy lifting, for free, and many have WFR's etc.., so how about using a card you already have! ( I'm an evil capitalist ), call 1-800-deepshit and for XXX.00, a call goes out to the same people who do it for free, they come get you, much less drama and embarassment, no newspaper report, money goes to the right people and the Fish and Game can keep ticketing snowmobilers...

Any fees collected by the government are gonna get worked over hard on administration costs. It's not one size fits all, sometimes you need a snowcat or whatever but half of these seem to be handholding walk outs.
Tom Stryker

Offline danf

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Re: 4 rescued from Mt. Washington last night
« Reply #66 on: January 23, 2014, 10:21:16 PM »
DMan, I know you quoted the article, but how many times have reporters either gotten facts wrong or left out pertinent details?  I'm sure $1 from every OHRV registration goes into the pot, but I highly doubt it's to the tune of $180k.  I think part of that $180k comes from hunting and fishing license sales as well.  If it was earlier in the evening I'd look into it some, but if there's a $120k shortfall every year then that tells me that what they do have isn't entirely from the OHRV people...

Regardless, there does need to be a way to get the people most likely to call F&G for a rescue to pay their share.  The USFS charges a fee to park.  I know it's mixing national and state but why can't they charge an extra couple bucks on the parking and send that to F&G?  Especially since the majority of the rescues occur in the Whites.

Offline The other tomcat

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Re: 4 rescued from Mt. Washington last night
« Reply #67 on: January 23, 2014, 10:48:50 PM »
You want to up the parking fee? Really? Have you ever actually seen how stupid the USFS spends the monies collected? Half or more goes to collecting it. They just built the THIRD Highwater Trail bridge in twenty years, they installed interpretive markers on the Boulder Loop Trail, then a few years later removed them. They moved the parking area back from Basin Pond, which was a place handicapped people could fish and see moose, then built a fishing ramp for the handicapped at the Covered Bridge. They advertised in the local paper for ways to spend the fees, then cried poor after Irene to the tune of seven million dollars from the American Reconstruction and Redistribution of Wealth Act. They tore out the beaver dam at Province Pond and then spent 126,000 $ creating 1.1 jobs for the duration of the new dam project to make it safer to live downstream where there are like seven more beaver dams.

I'll assume you know Crawford, Franconia, Cathedral, Whitehorse and parts of Mt Washington are state parks.

Not all states kiss federal ass. Pisgah National Forest in North Carolina is free of fees, and others are following suit. We should too.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2014, 11:00:22 PM by The other tomcat »
Tom Stryker

darwined

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Re: 4 rescued from Mt. Washington last night
« Reply #68 on: January 23, 2014, 10:55:33 PM »
You want to up the parking fee? Really? Have you ever actually seen how stupid the USFS spends the monies collected? Half or more goes to collecting it. They just built the THIRD Highwater Trail bridge in twenty years, they installed interpretive markers on the Boulder Loop Trail, then a few years later removed them. They moved the parking area back from Basin Pond, which was a place handicapped people could fish and see moose, then built a fishing ramp for the handicapped at the Covered Bridge. They advertised in the local paper for ways to spend the fees, then cried poor after Irene to the tune of seven million dollars from the American Reconstruction and Redistribution of Wealth Act. I'll assume you know Crawford, Franconia, Cathedral, Whitehorse and parts of Mt Washington are state parks.

Not all states kiss federal ass. Pisgah National Forest in North Carolina is free of fees, and others are following suit. We should too.
you're way too reasonable
Go stand in the corner until you come to your senses

Offline The other tomcat

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Re: 4 rescued from Mt. Washington last night
« Reply #69 on: January 23, 2014, 10:59:19 PM »
All right, call me when dinner is ready... :)
Tom Stryker

Offline lucky luke

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Re: 4 rescued from Mt. Washington last night
« Reply #70 on: January 23, 2014, 11:18:11 PM »
OK Luke, mountains are not dangerous, but they are risky. I bow to your unsurpassed skills as a rhetorician.

In  french, the definition of danger is a possibility to be injure:

A risk is a situation where you can be in danger.

You always have the possibility to commit in a dangerous place. I think that you take a risk in doing so. But it is your decision, not the one of the mountain. Foir my part, I try to avoid situation where it can be dangerous. I climb a little bit more under my level, but i climbed for 25 years.

Offline frik

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Re: 4 rescued from Mt. Washington last night
« Reply #71 on: January 24, 2014, 08:23:25 AM »
OK Luke when we start writing in French, then your comments may have a point.

Offline strandman

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Re: 4 rescued from Mt. Washington last night
« Reply #72 on: January 24, 2014, 05:23:22 PM »
Dinners ready...I'll send coordinates via a SPOT device   8)

Offline pappy

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Re: 4 rescued from Mt. Washington last night
« Reply #73 on: January 24, 2014, 06:24:40 PM »

I think spot annual subscriptions are $200..not sure though

Are you shitting me? $200? That's like ~25-30 six packs of pretty decent beer. Anyone who would make that trade off isn't a climber by definition.
If you're gonna be stupid, you gotta be tough.

Offline strandman

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Re: 4 rescued from Mt. Washington last night
« Reply #74 on: January 24, 2014, 06:33:05 PM »
and I think you still gotta buy the unit...$200 is per year subscription (I think)