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Author Topic: guide and Guides  (Read 960 times)

lucky luke

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guide and Guides
« on: January 27, 2014, 11:42:35 AM »

How to choose a guide? In bulk guiding... you can purchase a guide for less more money than with personal guiding. Which guide cost less after ten years of climb? Because you can take a guide to bring you to the top of the hill, but you can also take a guide to take you to the top of any mountain in the world. One will teach you safety technique and the other, make money.

I was at Frankeinstein, and going to climb a route. To test my partner and not to have to call the rescue for him, I want to test his ability  I need a steep section of ice where I can place an ice screw. So, I told a guide where I am going to go. There was three party above us, and falling ice here and there. A good guide will have wait me to climb at the same time, will have climb to the left of my line, placing gear as a directional for the rope; a bad guide will show that he don't have any respect of other climber and climb directly in the line where I told him that I was going to climb. He didn't ask if he can pass us and just do like all the cliff is his. At the anchor, he told me that we are not supposed to zig zag in a cliff. I am fifty and he was probably in diaper when I began to climb... I found him arrogant to told me how we can respect other climber as in the eighty, there was more climber in the cliff than today. After, he zig zag between the two other party above risking the life of the new leader, with few protection, the be...to be what. His client was climbing whit there knees because they didn't have enough technique to make the move and look sorry to by pass other. Respect of other is for me very important when you choose a guide.

If you read the section of the thread on how to cut weight in back country, you will read a discussion on cotton to stay warm and bring less equipment. As many of you know about babies, they also know how a diaper is made: "Diapers are constructed in three layers, an inner layer that sits against baby's skin is designed to be soft, stay relatively dry, and wick away moisture into the core. The absorbent core is designed to pull moisture in and trap it to keep wetness away from baby to avoid rashes. The outer layer is waterproof to prevent leaks" (http://www.babygearlab.com/a/11093/What-Is-Inside-Those-Disposable-Diapers). So it is clear that if you can keep your baby warm by wearing three layer of diferent material, you can also keep you warm by using the same mechanical system. You will see guide in that section saying a categoric NO, it is not good. And other who will see the utility of a system, and keep it in mind to save his life in the futur if some thing happen without warning. so, for me, a good guide is some one who listen to you, explain, question or repeat what you are saying and open your mind to more knowledge. A bad guide will say NO! Body X technique of climbing, NO! exercise to have a better use of crampon...NO! Standard technique for every body. every body climb the same.

There is also bad client. I was in the yos and met my friend who was guiding. His client want to know his limit. He bring him on an easy route like thin air. His client didn't know where to place his feet. For me, his level his 5.6 because feet placement is basic technique. But the client was strong and they did a 5.9 at a school wall. My friend told him that his feet was not place correctly, but the client want to know is limit in trad climbing...and he asked to do an harder route where the guide told him where to place his feet, where to place his hands and when his body most move. The client just use his power, not his head to climb. he was strong, not good at all. That client was a bad client...because he didn't lesson the basic of climbng and didn't have a solid back ground...he just want to say that he his good. so, there is client who don't want to learn.

As we are ging to a festival and many people will have great activity outdoors, keep safe and...if you want to climb ounce a year, take a guide who will pull you to the top of the hill. If you want to climb by yourself, learn the basic of ice/rock climbing with a good guide.

     
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ELM

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Re: guide and Guides
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2014, 12:02:18 PM »

Hmmm
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DaveR

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Re: guide and Guides
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2014, 12:21:57 PM »

Jesus, he really has me confused now! :P
« Last Edit: January 27, 2014, 01:47:07 PM by DaveR »
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wiggins

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Re: guide and Guides
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2014, 08:32:42 PM »

I'm embarrassed that it has taken me this long, but the holidays have held my attention and i haven't been keeping up with the posts. Alas with this senseless, utterly useless post (luke cows have udders) i have finally scene the truth. There is NO unLUCKY LUKE, there is only a cloaked doug millen spewing unintelligible nonsense with the dream of destroying neclimbs thus monopolizing the lucrative ice conditions market so that he can finally get enough money to move out of new england, the poisons in the water people..... don't drink the water.... the calls coming from in the house  THE CALLS COMING FROM INSIDE THE HOSE
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darwined

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Re: guide and Guides
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2014, 09:27:32 PM »

Oh please luke call him out by name.  Gimme two minutes to throw together some popcorn
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DLottmann

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Re: guide and Guides
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2014, 09:41:43 PM »

Wasn’t me :)

And Lucky Luke, are those diapers you are talking about ok for winter climbing conditions on Mt. Washington? I certainly did not want to take Johnny out for a piss in the -21c temps I was in up there yesterday... perhaps Cotton Diapers would be the key to my urinating when it is cold as shit dilemma...

Oh, and telling a guide, or ANY climber who was there before you where you want to go doesn’t mean they need to alter their route to accommodate you... get there earlier bro, guides won’t be there until at least 9:30.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2014, 09:46:04 PM by DMan »
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lucky luke

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Re: guide and Guides
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2014, 11:14:09 PM »

Oh, and telling a guide, or ANY climber who was there before you

We were the first and we wait pratically half an hour at the bottom before the guide arrived.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2014, 11:16:18 PM by lucky luke »
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sneoh

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Re: guide and Guides
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2014, 11:56:39 PM »

Synopsis: some guides are better than others.  The bad ones are doing it mostly for money; you can't learn anything from them.  End of story.  Nothing not seen in other trades, etc.  Next thread, please.
Really, LL, I expected much better from you.

Oh, just curious, how many diapers have you handled and changed, LL? 
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DaveR

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Re: guide and Guides
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2014, 05:33:05 AM »

Oh, just curious, how many diapers have you handled and changed, LL?

You would get more climbing partners LL if they didn't need to change your diapers. ;D
« Last Edit: January 28, 2014, 05:36:00 AM by DaveR »
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DaveR

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Re: guide and Guides
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2014, 05:35:12 AM »

Oh, and telling a guide, or ANY climber who was there before you

We were the first and we wait pratically half an hour at the bottom before the guide arrived.

You must be slow as shit if they came 1/2 hour after you and beat you to the climb!
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kenreville

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Re: guide and Guides
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2014, 05:40:52 AM »

Oh, and telling a guide, or ANY climber who was there before you

We were the first and we wait pratically half an hour at the bottom before the guide arrived.

What were you waiting for? A new freshy Depends to put on?
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JBrochu

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Re: guide and Guides
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2014, 10:51:18 AM »

Pro tip: I always wear a condom when climbing on the Rockpile. It's a vapor barrier for your pecker and it's dual use!

In case you pervs think by dual use I mean sex, you're wrongo! I saw one of those Survivordewds using a condom to carry drinking water. Of course, you could always squeeze the urine out of your Depends if truly desperate.

 
« Last Edit: January 28, 2014, 06:27:29 PM by JBrochu »
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lucky luke

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Re: guide and Guides
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2014, 11:49:31 AM »

Synopsis: some guides are better than others.  The bad ones are doing it mostly for money; you can't learn anything from them.  End of story.  Nothing not seen in other trades, etc.  Next thread, please.
Really, LL, I expected much better from you

If you are a parent, you change diaper and know how it work to keep our baby dry and warm. As you pay for the climbing course of your child, you don't know what are a good guide and what it is not. You follow the majority. The thread show that the majority is not always trustable. In this case, cotton can be use in some occasion and perform better than other when use as   

As you can see in many thread, small amount of climber don't care about the safety of people. They care what they sale. The example show how they work. They try to justify  what is not justify. If you read the post of DaveR, "You must be slow as shit if they came 1/2 hour after you and beat you to the climb!", you understand that if ice large as a soft ball fall from the top and it you...you can be injure. The guide climbed and a piece of ice big as a soft ball fall close to the guide. His comment just distract you from other important point. When the guide was above the cave, he just zig zag between two other party, throwing ice on them to "beat every body to the climb. It was dangerous and not respectful. The post of JBrochu is very interesting. As I use a comparison between diaper and urine, he use to compare condom and urine with my example. All though what he said his true and comics, he bring the fact that we most not exaggerate in the other sens. Cotton is not for all occasion, it is not a standard.

The post of JBrochu, which is a gramatical stylistic function similar to a .gift, was the roots of crag talk. When old people sit at the bottom of the cliff, waiting the rock to dry after a rain... They talk about safety and they make you think that there is many solution to a problem and two good solution can lead to a bad situation. Jeff, old Eric use also grammatical function in their post. You read it, find it stupid. but when you think about it after some times...you can make the distinction between paying 100$ and can climb for twenty five years after and paying only 60 box and crossing over the rope of other team, climbing on your knees, etc, worth. (note: some guide can charge the big price because of there reputation and just want money for there next trip...they don't even think at your safety).       

   
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DLottmann

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Re: guide and Guides
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2014, 11:59:00 AM »

You make a lot of assumptions about people Luke, but what's new?

Even the nationally known sponsored guides we have in the valley are some of the most humble accommodating climbers I have ever met.

I see more rudeness from new climbers than good climbers...

Back to your original point, I think I have a clearer picture of what happened.

You arrived at Standard with 2 parties on it. You were waiting for it to be safer to climb when a guide arrived with a client and he decided to go ahead and thread the needle.

I can see why this would be frustrating and agree if he just cut you off he was dead wrong. Typically it's a lack of communication between two parties... i.e. "Where exactly are you planning on climbing?" If you told him you were waiting for a line, and then he roped up and took your line, that is a valid complaint... one possible issue would be if you were waiting till a party topped out on Standard, I think few would wait that long to at least get to the cave... that route is just too damn busy IMO, and folks climb over and under each other all weekend long... Lots of better places for you to take your partner to "test his ability"... like Arethusa? Waterfall? Chia? All likely to be empty...
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DaveR

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Re: guide and Guides
« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2014, 12:23:45 PM »


You arrived at Standard with 2 parties on it. You were waiting for it to be safer to climb when a guide arrived with a client and he decided to go ahead and thread the needle.

I can see why this would be frustrating and agree if he just cut you off he was dead wrong. Typically it's a lack of communication between two parties... i.e. "Where exactly are you planning on climbing?" If you told him you were waiting for a line, and then he roped up and took your line, that is a valid complaint... one possible issue would be if you were waiting till a party topped out on Standard, I think few would wait that long to at least get to the cave... that route is just too damn busy IMO, and folks climb over and under each other all weekend long... Lots of better places for you to take your partner to "test his ability"... like Arethusa? Waterfall? Chia? All likely to be empty...

If you climb at Frankenstien on the weekends it is generally a clusterfuck. Especially on that route!

Start climbing, go find another route to climb or, expect to get passed. That's just the way it is there these days. Not saying that it's right.
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