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[neiceclimber]

Plain and simple, don't top rope climbs beyond the middle of your rope, especially on the weekends.

If You are close enough to witness something like this than I suggest either using humor to break the initial ice or say something like "you know I have a great trick for smoothly passing a knot, works every time."

[M_Sprague]

If I could, I would run over and put the kid on belay, then say "You just took your kid off belay. Let me show you how to pass the not safely." Then after some diplomatic conversation  to ease any hostility I would suggest he get some proper training. You have to try to do something. Then, if they are assholes and hostile I might loose my moral compass, figure they would be no loss to humanity and walk away after telling them off. I have only had to deal with a very small number where some diplomatic teaching hasn't helped though.

[JBrochu]

Knot passing can be a bear... there is a slick trick to pass a flat overhand through a large carabiner that is pretty awesome in a situation like you just described... don't think I could describe it well here but it is fast and involves nothing fancy... works well for lighter loads (like lowering 2 people down the slabs)....

I think they tried that method and the knot jammed so they had to haul back a little to unstick it. Poor Ian must have been fried by the time he finally made it to the ground because the injured guy outweighed him by about 50 pounds.

[tradmanclimbz]

At the very least you discreetly get hands on the rope and then nicely try to help keep the kid alive one way or annother. All the talk about yelling and kicking ass etc is counterproductive.

[lucky luke]

Well, clearly this party did not know how to, and while his son WAS ON THE PILLAR, the dad said, "You are ok where you are, right? Hang on, I AM GOING TO TAKE YOU OFF BELAY AND PASS THE KNOT."

Did you witnessed the guy removing taking off and passing the knot?

When you are doing so, I always asked my climber to take a rest position so I don't have to pull the rope at the same time. Futhermore, there is always a slack in the rope as you "pass the knot", so you take the climbr off the first rope with an atc and pass the knot and still belaying on the second knot with a figure eight or a half munter hitch (I think)

[DLottmann]

Having a 2nd ATC makes this pretty simple if the climber can take a “rest position” as Champ says... the few times I have done this it is easiest to leave the 1st ATC and locker on the rope for passing the knot again when lowering... I’ll also leave the 2nd ATC & locker on the rope while lowering if someone else is taking a lap next (ATC travels up in the air).

In 20 years I have done this maybe 3 times...

[tradmanclimbz]

never done it in 30+ years of climbing.  top ropeing stuff that is meant to be led is weak sauce what is with all the yo yo crap anyways. climb to the top, make an anchor and bring your partner up. enjoy the view. Seems like a lot of modern climbers do not even enjoy being up on the cliff. as soon as they get up there they holler to be lowered....  you know we never did have loweing accidents BINTD.....

[tradmanclimbz]

annother thing to keep in mind is that if you have 300ft of rope in a yo yo system and your climber falls 20ft up the climb they are going to deck with rope stretch.

[strandman]

Having a 2nd ATC makes this pretty simple if the climber can take a “rest position” as Champ says... the few times I have done this it is easiest to leave the 1st ATC and locker on the rope for passing the knot again when lowering... I’ll also leave the 2nd ATC & locker on the rope while lowering if someone else is taking a lap next (ATC travels up in the air).

In 20 years I have done this maybe 3 times...
[/quote

That's 2x more than i have in 35 years

[lucky luke]

never done it in 30+ years of climbing.  top ropeing stuff that is meant to be led is weak sauce what is with all the yo yo crap anyways. climb to the top, make an anchor and bring your partner up. enjoy the view. Seems like a lot of modern climbers do not even enjoy being up on the cliff. as soon as they get up there they holler to be lowered....  you know we never did have loweing accidents BINTD.....

I agree with the philosophy. But I don't like to risk my life for nothing.

There is a part of training in my climbing life and there is a part of real climb. It is why I on sight practically all my route. As you on sight, you have to be aware of any move that can be done and for that, you have to make risky move. Of course, that can be done with a bolt just a side, which is top roping for me. With slack in the rope and theelongation, the fall is often longer in top rope, without too high stress on the rope for multi pitch route.

I agree that it is personal. But I often top rope when the only think that I can win from the climb is the respect of other climber or a broken bone. In climbing, I want to feel that I am in control of my life. and I like to be with a partner to feel the same passion.

[DLottmann]

never done it in 30+ years of climbing.  top ropeing stuff that is meant to be led is weak sauce what is with all the yo yo crap anyways. climb to the top, make an anchor and bring your partner up. enjoy the view. Seems like a lot of modern climbers do not even enjoy being up on the cliff. as soon as they get up there they holler to be lowered....  you know we never did have loweing accidents BINTD.....

The last time I remember doing it was late one afternoon after leading Standard, Pegasus, and Dracula. A couple friends show'd up late while we were finishing Dracula and we decided to take a few TR laps on it as no one was around (it was about 4 pm) and the climbs was just too fat and plastic to not have some fun.

Fun. That's what it was... Taking 3-4 quick TR laps on the right side of that route was brilliant fun (I had already led it)...

I think one would ruin it for themselves if they TR'd a classic like Dracula before having led it a few times, but as long as you are not hogging a line from someone who wishes to lead I see no problem with it, but highly suggest this as a very late in the day activity... I certainly wouldn't have set up a TR on it had it been earlier in the day...

TRing is a great way to improve your leading techniques... seriously, I've dialed myself in when not worried about bodily harm then gone on to lead scary Grade 5's the next day much more comfortably... I don't see anything wrong with it if used appropriately...

[Homeless Junkie]

"tying a masterpoint into a TR into make the anchor redundant"

Wait? Actually IN the TR? What do you mean? So that the knot couldn't pass through or something silly like that?

 Sorry I'm late! So this TR anchor I'm talking was a static line tied to two trees using figure eights. No BFK in the middle and no two figure eights in a bight. So if one side untied the two lockers would slide off the end of the rope. The guy said this is totally safe and this way he can use his anchor for the routes beside the climb he was on.. yea ok that's safe. The sad part this guy had about ten kids with him. Must have been boy scouts or something.

 I was at Dracula a couple weeks ago. There were a couple guys TRing it after leading They coordinated with us so we could do both sides. They were super cool. Really good climbers too! Even led my buddy a jacket.. He left his belay jacket in his car. Haha. I never have a problem getting on stuff cause of top ropes. Well, unless I go to Texaco amp or Pitchoff Right late in the morning. Even then I know it's a TRing spot and ropes are going to be left up all day.

[tradmanclimbz]

I have no proble top ropeing just don't think its a good idea on climbs over 100 ft.

[Pete Jackson]

It's your duty as a human to say something, no matter what you expect the consequences to be.

If the guy tells you to pound sand, picks a fight, or flips out, it doesn't matter. You still do the right thing. You don't let someone die because you didn't want to argue with his dad.

[WanderlustMD]

It's your duty as a human to say something, no matter what you expect the consequences to be.

...

You don't let someone die because you didn't want to argue with his dad.

I'm pretty sure the only "duty" in this scenario lies with the one who just sent his kid up on a frozen waterfall without really knowing what to do.


(We all make mistakes, of course.)