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Author Topic: working a move  (Read 236 times)

lucky luke

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working a move
« on: March 20, 2014, 07:14:16 PM »

Of course, one can work a route and stop at a movement. But he mostly work a route as he try to do a specific move in a route.
As on sight climber, I have to place my pro and look higher to understand how to do the move. If it is a diedral, I can use bridging, crack or layback. If I am weak to do layback, I will choose the other technique first and fall.
So, you understand my question: how do you work a move and what is important to be able to use it in a new climb ?
« Last Edit: March 21, 2014, 10:11:57 AM by lucky luke »
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M_Sprague

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Re: working a move
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2014, 07:56:34 PM »

To be most efficient, I think you want to work out the move while pretty fresh, so your technique is crisp and not sloppy. Then you start adding moves into it so you can do the move under more duress while still maintaining perfect form. The key to being able to use the move later is repetition, so it is second nature and your brain is not having to refigure it out.

 For these reasons, when I was at my peak of redpointing sport routes I would work them from the top down, figuring out the top moves first and then adding sections further down. This way I had the top dialed in the most, where I would be the most tired. It is obviously the opposite philosophy to onsighting, but the principle of repetition carries over into that style as the body automatically flows into the required movement if you have practiced similar situations.
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"Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is not a path and leave a trail."

-Ralph Waldo Emerson

strandman

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Re: working a move
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2014, 11:23:05 AM »

Mark-- you mean "cheating" right / :o :o

Bouldering was the best way to learn/work hard moves for me..that way you get a groundfall for every failure..that helps the onsight ability
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M_Sprague

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Re: working a move
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2014, 12:59:55 PM »

I suppose, if that is how you want to define the rules of your game. I was into seeing if I could work out the choreography of difficult (for me) steep technical sport routes. To be honest, I am not exactly sure what Luke's (most likely rhetorical) question was, but repetition is the most recognized usual means to learn a movement to the point of it feeling easy and natural, no matter how you go about the repetition. He hasn't added the style construct to the equation (yet).  - initial learning of the movement as free of extra stress as possible and then under added stress to proof it.

Off to buy a new saw so I can practice my sawing moves and murder a tree blocking a cool boulder problem  8)
« Last Edit: March 21, 2014, 01:12:34 PM by M_Sprague »
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"Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is not a path and leave a trail."

-Ralph Waldo Emerson

strandman

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Re: working a move
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2014, 05:24:58 PM »

HAH HAH..... An Aussie "coach" once told me that bouldering is useless training..you just learn how to do a move... ::) At the time he got $50 an hour
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eyebolter

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Re: working a move
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2014, 07:39:11 PM »

Read "Performance Rock Climbing" by Dale Goddard and Udo Newman.  20 years old and still the best thing out there IMHO.

Took a workshop with Goddard and used his periodization; and went from 13b to 13d in one season.

Another good book is "Power to the People" by a Russian (Tesslavordia?).

Basically what he says is that every time you tell your body to do something, and you do it, it get easier.  Power is mostly about engrams, not about how big your muscles are.

Every time you tell your body to do something, and you fail, you make it harder.

Training to failure (in power training) is training to fail.  Never do a power move unless you know can do it.

Tough in climbing given all the variables, but the bottom line is that flailing on something over and over is going to do nothing for your climbing ability.
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lucky luke

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Re: working a move
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2014, 11:20:34 PM »

but repetition is the most recognized usual means to learn a movement to the point of it feeling easy and natural, no matter how you go about the repetition. He hasn't added the style construct to the equation (yet).  - initial learning of the movement as free of extra stress as possible and then under added stress to proof it.

I think so too. I used to try a climb, felt...go to my easy crag and try the move on all position that I can find. After that, I return to the route where I bail and try it again. If I can't make it, I change my technique and return to my easy crag and try the move.

I also read about a technique just after I came back from a cliff. Some times I learned some detail that can be obvious when you know it.

I asked the question because one of my friend try a 5.7 moves and he climbed it with face technique. He climbed a 5.11 on nothing instead of doing a kind of mantle.
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