overall difficulties

[lucky luke]

I was climbing a route an make an hard moves before falling. I try it many times and, as I was more tired, I can't climb as high as the first time. My hands was not strong enough and I burned my energy trying the move again and again...meaning that, in a multi-pitch route, I won't be strong enough to do the more difficult move.

Some climber told me to just pull on the rope to the highest point and try to make the next move.

It is an ethic question for me: should I do all the move and just understand that the route is not dry enough to be able to do it or should I wait the next rainy days to try it again and again to know if I am stronger and wiser than before?

Should I limit my climb to a strength competition between climber or climbing most also be a head game where you have to find the best solution under many kind of stress (falling, strength, etc)?       

[Lanky]

Not an ethical question at all. It's a question of style. And as always, do whatever the fuck you want. It really is that simple.

[Pete Jackson]

I dunno about you guys, but yarding on the rope often wears me out just as much or more than doing the moves that set you up for the crux on a long route.

For my money, I'd probably focus on finding moves that get me set up for the crux using less energy so that I could send the route clean later. But if on a dry day you can do the lower moves without wearing yourself out, then jugging past them to work on the crux when the bottom is wet seems like as good a way to spend a day as any.

You won't see me challenging your style or your ethics (I knew you were a deontologist....just kidding) Just be sure to have fun.

[JBeta]

I'd probably yard up the stick clip and clip the next bolt--then I'd pull myself up and work the move on a mini-TR. Work smarter, not harder!

[strandman]

It's called failure,,,you come back again another time

[sneoh]

If you have resigned yourself to "working" the route, then I would hand over hand up the rope till the last pro is at my waist, rest up, and go up from there.  Or not.  In that case, I will get lowered to get on the route later.

Edit: If the route is well overhung and I cannot reach the belayer side of the rope to do hand over hand, I usually ask to be lowered all the way.  I dislike the "boink" method to reach the highest pro, just seem like too much work for climber and belayer alike.

[lucky luke]

Not an ethical question at all. It's a question of style.

Style
1.a manner of doing something; a way of painting, writing, composing, building, etc., characteristic of a particular period, place, person, or movement; a way of using language and a way of behaving or approaching a situation that is characteristic of or favored by a particular person.

2.a distinctive appearance, typically determined by the principles according to which something is designed.


Ethic: moral principles that govern a person's or group's behavior.

As a trad climber, I discuss of ethic. The way one person use the principles to have a distinctive appearance is more a style.

For example, I saw a guy climbing without helmet thin air in wet condition. It is his style and I don't say any thing, it is not important for the community what ever happen.

If someone say that every body should not wear an helmet to be a bold climber....or to impress women.... I will say that it is more a question of ethic. Morally, we have to have moral principles to protect the majority of the climber...not to make restriction to the climber.

[neiceclimber]

I guess it depends on what the reason is for being on the route. If it's just to get to the top, pull on the rope, aid the crux, whip away, who cares. If it's to climb it clean, then man up and pull the ropes all the way to the base and give it another go.

[strandman]

That's right LL..  Don't wear a helmet so you can impress chicks and do serious routes...right... whatever you say 

[lucky luke]

I guess it depends on what the reason is for being on the route. If it's just to get to the top, pull on the rope, aid the crux, whip away, who cares. If it's to climb it clean, then man up and pull the ropes all the way to the base and give it another go.

One climber said, Raynold Messner I think, that when he arrived at the summit he was disappointed because his goal wass reached and he most find an other challenge. The climber said that the route to the summit and the friend you meet  is more important than to reach the summit.

Although to follow some guide course or to have access to a mountain, a climber most have done a certain number of climb. In some case, it is an obligation and just the summit is important, to write it in your CV. Maybe we can extend that to some climber who want a first ascent at all price, but it will be injust for those climber who do first ascent for fun.   

[strandman]

Again...why don't you understand that a first ascent, even a hard, serious one, can be fun

That's right..because your version of  first ascent is whacky

[lucky luke]

That's right..because your version of  first ascent is whacky

If you read my thread, I try to identify 1- climber who climb for obligation to be good, because it is an obligation to be admit in a climbing course of guiding or because the want to be the center of the attention, the best climber

I try also to identify 2- climber who make a first ascend for fun. At cathedral, one guy took three years to free a 5.14 and to send it. I always mention that to some one knew to the area as an interesting ethic different than mine

[neiceclimber]

LL when will you learn that climbers cannot be type casted into neat little piles. They come from all walks of life and backgrounds. I climb because I like the movement over rock and ice, I also climb because I enjoy the physical challenges. Sometimes I climb a route because it appeals to me in a specific way. Sometimes I climb a route because someone claimed it to be a good intro to the grade or area. Sometimes I climb an easy route to get the feel of the zone I'm in. Sometimes I climb something just to see if I can. Sometimes I just climb to climb. Ive failed on FA's, and I've bailed on routes I've done 20+ times.

[lucky luke]

LL when will you learn that climbers cannot be type casted into neat little piles.

I think that people have a tendency to "caste" and ordinarily they think that they are in the superior level. In my question, I make two opposition from working each move separately, and working the route bottom up. Draw a line with, in both side, opposite behavior...and you will have all the possibility for those opposite behavior.

Of course I gave my opinion, I prefer to do bottom up, but the same day... I did work the move on a previous route. I don't think that I said that one is better than the other. But you have all possibility. You can work no move, one, two or ...to the top.

People change. Some climber understand that they don't have to climb hard to be in the elite, to have fun. Your post describe a lot of possibility of what a climber can do. You don't have to climb hard to be a good climber or struggle to be in the good caste.

What is a caste in climbing? Isn't it those who said that they are so good in both trad and sport that there is no distinction between both ethic? For some climber, afraid of the high, there is more personal value just staying at the anchor of a top rope in white horse than some one who solo the cliff to the top.       

[sneoh]

LL when will you learn that climbers cannot be type casted into neat little piles. They come from all walks of life and backgrounds. I climb because I like the movement over rock and ice, I also climb because I enjoy the physical challenges. Sometimes I climb a route because it appeals to me in a specific way. Sometimes I climb a route because someone claimed it to be a good intro to the grade or area. Sometimes I climb an easy route to get the feel of the zone I'm in. Sometimes I climb something just to see if I can. Sometimes I just climb to climb.

+1.  Thank you for reiterating to LL. Someday, it might just register!