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Author Topic: El Cap  (Read 1462 times)

slink

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Re: El Cap
« Reply #15 on: June 22, 2014, 10:25:00 AM »

Luke
 This is my last post to you. You get on almost every post and preach like everyone on this site is a beginner including the likes of Strand, SA, Frik, And Tradman ,Who probably have more first ascents than you have routes climbed, and the list goes on. You need to stop over analyzing every post and also stay on topic. I think everyone would appreciate you more if you could do this. I hear you are a good person just a bad poster. Climb safe and post smart
 Jim
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lucky luke

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Re: El Cap
« Reply #16 on: June 22, 2014, 02:18:52 PM »

I'm baffled as to how this relates to Honnold ???? {....}

Holds break all the time weather can be a factor, but so can repeated use ....

You mentioned some exceptional climb did by Honnold. Pappy mentioned that he was afraid to see his name on the newspaper as he open is computer. Tradmanclimbz wrote that a hold broke without warning and he felt.

I began with a general assumption: "need a lot of judgement". When you wrote an introduction, it is the technique to use. General, ask the question in a positive way, and gave an idea of what you have after.

In the development, I discuss of a case of go for it. It is very similar to tradmanclimbz description: " the hold looked fine, looked completly solid i had used it several times. It still broke. Not everything can be controled by luke" If a hold is used several times, that means that I don't have to take care??? I made an association with that idea (which is also discuss this winter), between a person who train for one technique (falling on bolt) and other good climbers who climb every day (like Honnold and other people)

Classical conditioning is the synthesis of what I wrote. If you climb slab all summer, you will be not as good on crack. If you climb gym all winter, you are not going to be as good outside. etc. This is classical conditioning. Honnold are conditioned to climb his goal.

I didn't say that he his good or bad, I described the process to have more safety in climbing. I saw Doug Madara climbing one day on thin air. At first, I think that he was a beginner. After, I saw that every move was done as if some thing will broke in his hands. He was in perfect equilibrum in each moves. That guy, that day, influence my way of climbing. Climbing is not a lotery, where you win or loose by chances. Why a holds broke, the geology of the cliff (line of fracture), three point of contact, etc...are all question that we can not learn by classical conditioning like "clip a bolt and go for it". Slink: it is sure that SA have a lot of knowledge and that he is a great climber. Because he his better than me...did that means that classical conditioning don't exist???

Some of you, for good or bad reason, drag people to that level of clip and go. You destroy the information. Reading what you say about braking holds...I had the impression that you stay longer time in Las Vegas playing in lottery slot than in red rock. If it is not the case: the question is still the same: why did you humiliate people who show how Doug Madara is a good and safe climber even in a 5.6.   

Note: Doug Madara climbed a 5.11 on canon close to vmc with 25 meters of run out and his belayer told me that he was perfectly safe and in control. He was safe, but the rock is still the same today.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2014, 02:27:55 PM by lucky luke »
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lucky luke

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Re: El Cap
« Reply #17 on: June 22, 2014, 06:57:28 PM »

You get on almost every post and preach like everyone on this site is a beginner including the likes of Strand, SA, Frik, And Tradman ,

sorry if I am a bad poster. Maybe it is the language barrier.

I wrote for beginner to understand that climbing is not so easy as the expert describe. Patrick Edlinger said one day: the only think you can imitate from an expert is how to put your hand in a chuck bag.

I don't wrote for expert. I think that more your life is at risk, more you should analyze the consequences of what we are doing. I know that some people are mad at me, but if you help me to inform more people about what is classical conditioning, more people will be able to condition themselves for the kind of climb they like to do (easy long route with friends, short route easy or hard, long route with a hight level of commitment, etc.). actually you try to bring people in one categories bolt. 

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eyebolter

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Re: El Cap
« Reply #18 on: June 22, 2014, 07:28:26 PM »

Yes Luke, even if the hold may be loose, you just need to "equalize" on the holds as John Bachar famously said.

I belayed him when he lead "The Gift" 5.12c/d at Red Rocks, the day before he free soloed it.

He hiked it, but said it "felt shaky" when I lowered him down.

I made sure that I was not there for the free solo.

What could ever go wrong?  Look at how well it worked out for him in the long run.

The last hold he equalized on was the ground.
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tradmanclimbz

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Re: El Cap
« Reply #19 on: June 22, 2014, 07:48:26 PM »

I was simply pointing out that if a marginal 5.10 climber can fall on 5.5 when something unexpected happens a 5.14 climber can most likly come off of a 5.12 when the unexpected happens........
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DLottmann

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Re: El Cap
« Reply #20 on: June 23, 2014, 10:11:49 AM »

If the presence of vegetation should warn me the rock is loose I think we are pretty screwed in New England huh?

LL/Champ,

Gonna ask you a personal question publicly as I heard this rumor yesterday. You suffered a head injury at some point in your life? It effects your memory, like how you only recognize faces when the person is standing next to their car? Is this true?
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strandman

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Re: El Cap
« Reply #21 on: June 23, 2014, 06:04:15 PM »

Easy  dMan.. i barely recognize TC when standing next to him...of course he faintly recognized me.....is it the beer ? runouts ?? age ?  Fucked if I know
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bag11s

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Re: El Cap
« Reply #22 on: June 23, 2014, 08:19:57 PM »

I do not want to equalize on the ground.

I have pretty much only done so only from high-ball boulder problems with pads, although I have suffered humiliating ground equalization from above the second bolt on sport climbs on two occasions with only pride injuries to show.

However, back in the day, I wanted to be a hard man because that was all the rage. After some various shorter if more numerically difficult exploits, I free soloed White Horse standard route in forty minutes and then ran over to link Funhouse to Upper Refuse in twenty minutes (1991). This was way back three years in to the climbing half of my life, and although it was (and still is) proud to me on some level, now it mainly feels tawdry. After that I completely gave soloing up. Even today, after climbing constantly all these years, I still know its possible to slip off pretty much any kind of slab for the most insignificant reason. Now, at the gym, I do not mention this stunt to younger climbers I meet- it feels like some weird barrel over Niagara falls psychosis oddly sustained from the nineteenth century. At the time of that particular exploit, my younger daughter was two. Now she is twenty five, and I very much want to see what the next twenty five brings, not to mention the older one's doctoral pursuits.

In twenty three additional years of climbing since that link-up excursion I have have gotten so much enjoyment out of the sport, have had so many great regional and international experiences- in Spain, France, Mexico, and around our own awesomely steep rock blessed country. I have climbed so many exotic cruxes, routes, and boulder problems that were gymnastically challenging and obsessional to me, and have met, climbed with, and generally hung with so many great people. Over the years awesome climbing partners came in waves as one person or group moved from the region, or on to other things in life- to be replaced by new friends, with similar motivations to my own.

Over all these years time, shit happened: I drank liquor- got weak; then barely reigned it in and trained (like Arnold)- got strong; then ate without self constraint and gained walrus weight- got heavy; ate like a pixie- got fit; got distracted by family and obligations- lost momentum; bouldered until I couldn't possibly do more-slaved my way back to fitness; worked like a dog for the mortgage and every goddamned ridiculous cost of modern life- got so weak, but then would weekend warrior up- and get a bit fitter again, bouldered in the gym and dieted like a monk- got strong, designed the year with autumn focus for best NE climbing weather- did some stuff in the fall; worked on my land- got strong moving ridiculously large rocks and logging two acres of raw NH woods, but climbed poorly; bouldered in bunches- got a bit stronger again. So, currently on a regimen of starvation and six months of plastic pulling and now we will really see if I can break through frustration to that selfish super satisfying and personal success of the next harder grade that I am pursuing. (did I mention the selfishness of it?)- but the main thing is the fun-ness of it.

I am like many other climbers I know, all hoping for that next big ascent, that special ascent- that defining moment. That moment of glory. All those thousands of glorious feet. Or that perfect throw to the tips edge that clearly is two millimeters out of reach and really is so ridiculously small. Or that ability to reel in a series of preposterous edges in a sequence way beyond what seems in the realm of the possible. Or some orangoutang brachiation that defies human logic. 

Now, If you are starting your climbing career and are, say, twenty or so years old- take Royal Robin's advise, protect opportunistically. When trad climbing take care of yourself first and foremost. That will lead directly into having so much over so many years. It is hard for me to relay to you how much.
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The other tomcat

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Re: El Cap
« Reply #23 on: June 23, 2014, 09:16:22 PM »

Ha, that's the best thing I have read in a long time!

I will even say that to me, a well crafted lead is the real goal. It's harder physically to do that vs. solo.

And a well crafted lead can mean a lot of different things....

and can include some risk.
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Tom Stryker

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Re: El Cap
« Reply #24 on: June 23, 2014, 09:35:04 PM »

bag11s: I really enjoyed that bit of writing. I can really relate.
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kenreville

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Re: El Cap
« Reply #25 on: June 23, 2014, 10:26:39 PM »

bag11s: I really enjoyed that bit of writing. I can really relate.

Phoock yeah. Well said.
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DaveR

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Re: El Cap
« Reply #26 on: June 24, 2014, 05:29:08 AM »

bag11s: I really enjoyed that bit of writing. I can really relate.

There are probably many here who feel like you just summed up there life.
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lucky luke

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Re: El Cap
« Reply #27 on: June 24, 2014, 08:37:56 AM »

I am like many other climbers I know, all hoping for that next big ascent, that special ascent- that defining moment. That moment of glory. All those thousands of glorious feet. Or that perfect throw to the tips edge that clearly is two millimeters out of reach and really is so ridiculously small. Or that ability to reel in a series of preposterous edges in a sequence way beyond what seems in the realm of the possible. Or some orangoutang brachiation that defies human logic. 

Now, If you are starting your climbing career and are, say, twenty or so years old- take Royal Robin's advise, protect opportunistically. When trad climbing take care of yourself first and foremost. That will lead directly into having so much over so many years. It is hard for me to relay to you how much.

great testimony of climbing. Sorry to point out some conclusion that I think important for beginer.

John Bachard climb a shaky 5.12, he knows that the hold was bad, but climb it for... why did he solo it? To have the first free ascent, to be consider as an hard climber?

Tradmanclimb first ascent a route, he climbed the route that he bolts without care because he think that the holds are good... and he felt.

One guy knows that the danger is there and felt because he try some thing too hard. The other ignore that the hold that he took many times could broke. He think that it is an act of gods when a hold broke. he didn't use the technique to "equalize on the hold"

As you climb hard like tradmanclimb... are you going to ignore safety technique and think that it is an act of god if you felt or are you going to climb like Royal Robin state: take Royal Robin's advise, protect opportunistically.

One need to place bolt, the other learned many technique to be safe. It take time. Nobody can be an onsight 5.9 trad climber in fifteen climbing day per year...and be safe.

Note: protecting opportunistically is clipping bolt when you see some. A route that need hard knowledge to protect  can be destroy by a bolt place to protect an "act of god" of sport climber.

 
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strandman

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Re: El Cap
« Reply #28 on: June 24, 2014, 06:27:09 PM »

Ya bachar needed anothe r5.12 solo  so he would be a"famous climber"   I really don't think he intended to  die that day in Mammoth..all you gotta do is let go.

Once again LL you insult me and other people I know...climbing is a bout limits and finding your limits.  i guess yours is climbing 5.8 with bad holds and impressing beginners with your "onsite" prowess.

if it wasn't for people doing f/a's.you would have nothing to do

i am disgusted with you and your self fufillin. pompous bullshit

Yes i do f/a's and I am pretty proud of the effort and work I put into them..maybe you should try some
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lucky luke

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Re: El Cap
« Reply #29 on: June 24, 2014, 07:05:59 PM »

Once again LL you insult me and other people I know...climbing is a bout limits and finding your limits.

I climbed one or two 5.12 and onsight one 5.11. Means nothing for me, bad style for a trad climber. annoying as I think at one move at a time, not the entire route. I never test my limits and don't want to find my limits in sport.

climbing is about knowing myself. i don't face the wall, I face me.

I climbed a route five years before is first ascent.
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