Author Topic: rumney  (Read 652 times)

Offline wiggins

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rumney
« on: July 08, 2014, 09:09:34 PM »
anybody know whats up with the bolts and static line next to cold shoulder up at the hinterlands?

Offline M_Sprague

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Re: rumney
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2014, 08:18:40 AM »
Might need to talk to Bradley White, Harry. Good luck with that though, lol. See comments under 'Moxie' http://www.mountainproject.com/v/moxie/107623406 in MP
"Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is not a path and leave a trail."

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DLottmann

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Re: rumney
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2014, 03:48:47 PM »
Looks like he deleted all his own comments... sounds like a mess over there... nice to see fightin’ on that said of the Kanc for once ;)

Hey LL, figured out the “Deez” joke yet?

Offline Pete Jackson

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Re: rumney
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2014, 09:01:03 AM »
anybody know whats up with the bolts and static line next to cold shoulder up at the hinterlands?
Might need to talk to Bradley White, Harry. Good luck with that though, lol. See comments under 'Moxie' http://www.mountainproject.com/v/moxie/107623406 in MP

I asked Bradley about it: he says that's Mike Robinson's rope, been hanging for a couple years. Static line in place since 2012. Sound like the same rope?

The bolts are likely part of the Moxie / Know Moxie / Killer's crack thing. Nobody ever got angry enough to chop, while Ryan and Mike pushed back pretty hard on the line being inappropriate. It all blew over and the local community let it ride.


We came to climb, not to whine.

Offline M_Sprague

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Re: rumney
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2014, 09:20:59 AM »
It does need to be cleaned up. A bolted crappy aid ladder right next to a clean 5.9 crack, especially when the legitimate and much better start for Moxie has been done? I had the impression that Ryan agreed that the bolt ladder was no longer the way to go. It was only Mike who made a (lame imo) argument for it . Bradley; well, I think many are familiar with Bradley and his issues. I think most of us are appalled by it, but seeing that it is in a pretty obscure place it was better to wait and see if the culprits came to their senses and cleaned it up themselves, rather than push it at the moment. It is probably something the RCA is going to have to deal with.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2014, 09:33:03 AM by M_Sprague »
"Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is not a path and leave a trail."

-Ralph Waldo Emerson

Offline DaveR

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Re: rumney
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2014, 10:11:21 AM »
It does need to be cleaned up. A bolted crappy aid ladder right next to a clean 5.9 crack, especially when the legitimate and much better start for Moxie has been done? I had the impression that Ryan agreed that the bolt ladder was no longer the way to go. It was only Mike who made a (lame imo) argument for it . Bradley; well, I think many are familiar with Bradley and his issues. I think most of us are appalled by it, but seeing that it is in a pretty obscure place it was better to wait and see if the culprits came to their senses and cleaned it up themselves, rather than push it at the moment. It is probably something the RCA is going to have to deal with.

IT'S TRASH. REMOVE IT NOW! NO RCA NEEDED IMO.

Offline M_Sprague

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Re: rumney
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2014, 11:58:54 AM »
I don't like the precedent of chopping bolts unilaterally. By the RCA addressing the issue it is more community based.
"Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is not a path and leave a trail."

-Ralph Waldo Emerson

Offline pappy

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Re: rumney
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2014, 01:06:19 PM »
I don't like the precedent of chopping bolts unilaterally. By the RCA addressing the issue it is more community based.


Which is a recipe for never removing bolts that should be. Try getting a group to agree on something like that (especially a 'sport' climbing 'community' which perceives its existence depending upon bolts placed by God, elves, or someone, and who are we to say otherwise?). This only occurs through unilateral action, which means that it is prone to abuse by individuals who view the world a little cockeyed, but I don't consider that a reason to refrain when it needs to be done.

This is what we did at Sandrock, a unique climbing area in AL that has been thoroughly trashed by 'sport' climbers machine gunning bolts into everything they can think of. Including decades old climbs that were in the guide book. We were seriously disturbed that this sort of stupid would migrate across the sandstone belt, so a small group of us went over to deal with it. We decided on an objective standard: Even if the climb was a gear protected route in the guide, we had someone who had never been on it lead it on sight on gear. If they did it clean, out the bolts came (to be more precise, slice them off with a Dremel, pop the flush stud further back with a punch, cover with epoxy mixed with the local sand. You need a metal detector to figure out where they had been.) Then we very publicly made it clear what we did and why. And that if this behavior migrated like a virus to places like T-Wall, etc. the response would be...more aggressive. There was a minor amount of bitching, and we had to make a second trip when the local 5.12 'guru' (who somehow never managed to climb 5.12 anywhere else) tried to retro some more routes several years later, but basically people got it, and the virus has not (yet) spread further. The lesson is, be up front, lay down the standard, and if you are confident in your position just do it.
If you're gonna be stupid, you gotta be tough.

Offline Pete Jackson

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Re: rumney
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2014, 01:33:59 PM »
I don't like the precedent of chopping bolts unilaterally. By the RCA addressing the issue it is more community based.

The lesson is, be up front, lay down the standard, and if you are confident in your position just do it.

There's merit in what you have to say, but I do think you'll find that cooler heads often prevail lately, particularly in a place like Rumney where the amount of use we see calls for a community approach.  Unilateral action -- while perhaps justifiable -- only serves to escalate the issue here. You'd be just as likely to see three new bolts go in right after pulling the old ones if it weren't for the willingness of folks to discuss the issue at length to reach a solution.  Harder to argue with the answer when it's been peer reviewed, ya know?

That said, it probably is time to address the Moxie issue, as well as the open project at Main cliff.

Mark: wanna take the issue offline and see what we can come up with?
 
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Offline M_Sprague

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Re: rumney
« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2014, 01:54:17 PM »
The RCA has removed bolts before, for example, a route that crossed a classic line and could be TRed easily. Fortunately we haven't had too many people placing bolts in completely oddball ways. There are a few that probably shouldn't have been placed, but they generally are just low quality lines that don't really affect other climbs. I think the Rumney community recognizes that people have different aesthetic visions and try to leave space for their expression and only steps in if something is really egregious. As the area gets closer to fully developed, unfortunately there will need to be more "policing" if you will, to keep things from going completely to shit. It is obviously better if people use self control and listen to fellow climbers, and few of us like to be told what not to do, but it is just the way it is when you have a bunch of people using anything. Unilateralism is sometimes needed, but it carries its own negative ramifications.
"Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is not a path and leave a trail."

-Ralph Waldo Emerson

Offline M_Sprague

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Re: rumney
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2014, 02:00:39 PM »
Mark: wanna take the issue offline and see what we can come up with?

Probably a good idea. Others will have to take the lead though, Mike and Bradley seem to think it is a personal issue with me, because I have spoken up in the past, though it isn't.
"Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is not a path and leave a trail."

-Ralph Waldo Emerson

Offline wiggins

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Re: rumney
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2014, 07:12:22 PM »
wow, i read the mopro stuff, what a shitshow!  maybe every cliff needs it's crap filled cluster climb, maybe they make the good ones that much better, but not everyone should bolt climbs! the ropes gotta go and probably the bolts but if they get chopped they'll inevitable comeback. u can't teach common sense or self awareness (think skynet) anybody scene the dyke lately? it was kinda chilly last night.....

Offline eyebolter

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Re: rumney
« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2014, 11:46:22 AM »
I don't like the precedent of chopping bolts unilaterally. By the RCA addressing the issue it is more community based.


Which is a recipe for never removing bolts that should be. Try getting a group to agree on something like that (especially a 'sport' climbing 'community' which perceives its existence depending upon bolts placed by God, elves, or someone, and who are we to say otherwise?). This only occurs through unilateral action


As Mark said, the RCA voted to remove "Spiny Dogfish," which was basically bolted across and then crowded Flyin Hawaiin.   I think the RCA is a better way to handle it at Rumney, given that the bolt placers in this case are likely to do something even dumber in "retaliation."