Author Topic: strategy for climbing  (Read 3634 times)

Offline sneoh

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Re: strategy for climbing
« Reply #15 on: November 06, 2014, 08:11:21 PM »
A bad strategy is to learn movement
This I disagree with.  And I bet many others will too.
What do you call subtle shifts of the body to get more stable and fine footwork?
Maybe you call it Technique (so that is OK) ....  so much of efficient climbing, in trad, sport, whatever is about good and smooth flow of movement, to conserve strength and keep emotions in check.


"You have to decide to do a flag, where you can broke your vertebrae or a barn door depending of your pro" - the poster formerly known as Champ

Offline The other tomcat

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Re: strategy for climbing
« Reply #16 on: November 06, 2014, 08:25:42 PM »
I devote time to movement every spring. Usually at Jockey's Cap.
Tom Stryker

Offline lucky luke

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Re: strategy for climbing
« Reply #17 on: November 06, 2014, 09:14:12 PM »
A bad strategy is to learn movement
This I disagree with.  And I bet many others will too.

Well, the exact words I used is: "So, one good strategy in trad is to test your reaction to stress and to know enough to be able to see the danger an avoid it/going out of it.

A bad strategy is to learn movement and when you are in problem...crying that you need bolt."

In the first phrase, you Have: "to know enough to be able to see the danger an avoid it"

Knowing how to climb is also knowing fine movement. But it is not the most important in trad, There is also other technique of rope management, weather forecast, knowing the fracture line of rocks, food/liquid, etc.

Offline markvnh

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Re: strategy for climbing
« Reply #18 on: November 06, 2014, 09:18:32 PM »
Echo...great story! I remember allot of what you say about Mill City. Here's a Mill City story for you. It was Devils night or Mischeif Night...whatever you call the day before Halloween. I was there after work that night with some friends and all of a sudden there was this big commotion near the entrance. Some punks most likely from Lowell were rocking a car and tipped the damn thing over on its roof! We were all freaking even though we outnumbered the punks. It was a junker car but still someone's car. One of the last climbers outta the gym was the owner. Looked at his car on its roof and said, to paraphrase - "fuck it, it's a junker, who's gonna give me a belay!"

Holy shit - I remember that to this day!

Not sure this is on topic however - almost every single one of my "adult" friendships has been forged through the bond of climbing. Nothing can replace that!
« Last Edit: November 06, 2014, 09:21:35 PM by markvnh »

Offline Climber57r

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Re: strategy for climbing
« Reply #19 on: November 07, 2014, 12:23:59 AM »
Mill City Rock Gym in Dracut MA.


Well a few of us must have crossed paths. I also did the same. I spent a lot of time in the mattress filled cave climbing upside down. What would people think of that today, especially in that area? A long time has passed but I am grateful for all that Mill City offered. Mark was a great person to climb with, and you could not beat the cheap entry fee, especially if you gave a few belay lessons and climbed for free. And where else can you find a plywood slab like that these days?

I kept writing but I did not want to put a line through a whole paragraph so I opted for the delete option. I guess some of us are just more quirky than others.
Good times. Good climbs. Get out there, get after it, and most of all enjoy it.

"A not neat knot, is a knot not needed"

Echo

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Re: strategy for climbing
« Reply #20 on: November 07, 2014, 08:13:29 AM »
Love these Mill City memories... here's one... I was only 15, but I remember seeing Mark's daughter climb. She was a few years older than me, and quite the looker. I was a skinny kid with long hair below my shoulders (might help some remember if we crossed paths there). The day I built up enough courage to say hello to her was the first day I saw her boyfriend. Built like a lightweight ultimate fighter, shaved head, tattoos... that hello never came. But seeing her climb everything so effortlessly definitely motivated me to keep climbing... might have been the lycra too...

Offline strandman

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Re: strategy for climbing
« Reply #21 on: November 07, 2014, 11:47:43 AM »
LL wrong again..movement is essential in all forms of climbing..learning is learning..I have decided to disagree with you 100% all the time.

Fuck freedom of the hills

Offline markvnh

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Re: strategy for climbing
« Reply #22 on: November 07, 2014, 11:53:45 AM »
...Echo, you're great for laughs the last couple days!

Offline lucky luke

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Re: strategy for climbing
« Reply #23 on: November 07, 2014, 04:46:56 PM »
LL wrong again..movement is essential in all forms of climbing..learning is learning..

In "art of leading" of John long, he describes different kinds of basic movements that a leader most do before he can use more sophisticated movement. Those movement is for rest situation where you can...rest and place protection without using too much power.

A sport climber arrived in a very hard 5.7 move...I say hard because he used a fine technique that he learned else where. In fact, he did a 5.11 move in a 5,7 rest.

I was at the crag and i asked some one what was a layback, if he can do a mantle, to describe the technique to past a roof... he didn't know any thing, but was able to climb 5.11 after some fall.

The purpose here is not to say that the climber was weak, but that climbing hard have to be paid with less technique, If you took ten hours in a gym to do a move, you are going to be able to do the move outside. if you took five hours to find a place to rest, three hours to place the protection...you are not going to be, in two hours of training a technique, as good as some one who take ten hours.

So, the importance of knowing your ethic is important to meet the idea that you have of climbing. You learned in a gym. You think that you are safe...who said: it is not what you don't know who will kill you it is what you think you know!!!

note I am still learning.   

Offline sneoh

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Re: strategy for climbing
« Reply #24 on: November 07, 2014, 06:41:28 PM »
A sport climber arrived in a very hard 5.7 move...I say hard because he used a fine technique that he learned else where. In fact, he did a 5.11 move in a 5,7 rest.
You are way over thinking this.  This climber in question has not learned the required movement and technique to do a 5.7 rated move at around 5.7 difficulty.
It has nothing to do with sport or trad or bouldering.  He/she has just not learnt a particular technique or move that makes that 5.7 section go at around 5.7.
Or unable to figure out a tricky move or hold.

"You have to decide to do a flag, where you can broke your vertebrae or a barn door depending of your pro" - the poster formerly known as Champ

Offline strandman

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Re: strategy for climbing
« Reply #25 on: November 07, 2014, 07:45:57 PM »
I learned about the flag in '79 from Coach Niland..bouldering at thr Alcove..I thought it was fucked, take your foot off  I learned a TON top roping at the Quarries  and yes , leading at Cannon

SEE VARIETY ?

Just because FOTH names a move doesn't mean shit....it's like Chouinard with hir "pied a plate" or whatever..keeps your crampons on the ice ?


GOD..I would love to take you out on an f/a..if such a thing existed ;)

Offline lucky luke

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Re: strategy for climbing
« Reply #26 on: November 07, 2014, 09:52:32 PM »
You are way over thinking this.  This climber in question has not learned the required movement and technique to do a 5.7 rated move at around 5.7 difficulty.
It has nothing to do with sport or trad or bouldering.  He/she has just not learnt a particular technique or move that makes that 5.7 section go at around 5.7.

Sneoh he was a good friend. he was a sport climber. he is just accostumed to do hard move. He climb the route...but in 5.11. It was in missing link.

He place too many pro for the easy move. In some route, you will need extra gear for high above. It is strategy that a beginner can not see.

Offline sneoh

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Re: strategy for climbing
« Reply #27 on: November 07, 2014, 09:58:26 PM »
He place too many pro for the easy move. In some route, you will need extra gear for high above. It is strategy that a beginner can not see.
Common "mistake" for all of us during our early days.  It is all part of the life-long learning process.

"You have to decide to do a flag, where you can broke your vertebrae or a barn door depending of your pro" - the poster formerly known as Champ

Offline lucky luke

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Re: strategy for climbing
« Reply #28 on: November 07, 2014, 10:13:06 PM »
I learned about the flag in '79 from Coach Niland..bouldering at thr Alcove..I thought it was fucked, take your foot off  I learned a TON top roping at the Quarries  and yes , leading at Cannon[...]

GOD..I would love to take you out on an f/a..if such a thing existed ;)

Strandman, you are a leader, not just in climbing, but in a group.

I am sure that if we meet in les hautes georges, where the ice route la pomme d'or is (golden apple), I am sure that we can do amasing first ascent in trad. i can figure by what you wrote that you have a lot of skill and knowledge. Still trying to push the limit or to not lower it too much (aging is for every body).

Some people never met Coach Niland and echo report that he learned mostly by reading a book and trying routes, after the gym. it is not your case, you learned from the best trad climber and you didn't transmit there knowledge to climb sport. Which is good for a sport climber.

People who climb 5.12 climb more than fifteen hours per week to keep there level. eight hours on saturday, two or three hours two nights during the weeks, an hour or two of running, some exercises and you can be a 5.12 climber. I never saw a guy, playing chess for ten years, able to climb 5.12...even if he his good at strategy. To climb 5.12, you most be good at all ethics of climbing...except if you are doing a route to learned the movement to do the route, not the technique.

The heritage of your trad teacher is that they teach you the technique, not the movement. You improve in both technique and movement. And the new generation try to imitate what you are doing. They can't so they are cheating.