Author Topic: trad climbing in a gym  (Read 11056 times)

Offline DaveR

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Re: trad climbing in a gym
« Reply #45 on: December 03, 2014, 06:43:59 PM »
I remember the old wall in the y with the home made holds.

Offline lucky luke

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Re: trad climbing in a gym
« Reply #46 on: December 03, 2014, 08:20:32 PM »
Essentially this was an industry group that set standards and policies for climbing gyms so that we could secure insurance at a better rate and insure safety standards across all gyms.

So, if you read the first post and construct a trad route like the one suggest with hand traverse...

Is it going to be more expensive in liability or the same?

Strandman said, I think, that the liability will be higher. I said that we will have less accident with injury outside, with the same liability in the gym!!!

Offline JBro

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Re: trad climbing in a gym
« Reply #47 on: December 04, 2014, 09:09:02 AM »
Have a quiche, now, or maybe a tort.  You deserve it!
-bristolpipe

I like to keep things simple, even if it's faaaken painful and miserable.
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This is grain, which any fool can eat, but for which the Lord intended a more divine means of consumption.
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Offline snowleopard

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Re: trad climbing in a gym
« Reply #48 on: December 04, 2014, 12:11:48 PM »
LMAO!

Best reaction to the LL bullshit ever.  Priceless

Post Hijack now for a reminder:  With winter conditions in full swing don't forget
to stock up on plenty of cotton t-shirts for baselayers.  Be sure to size properly so
the back doesn't ride up exposing bare skin.  We want to keep that soggy, sweat
soaked material close to the skin....nice wet and warm!

Offline DaveR

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Re: trad climbing in a gym
« Reply #49 on: December 05, 2014, 07:11:48 AM »
Post Hijack now for a reminder:  With winter conditions in full swing don't forget
to stock up on plenty of cotton t-shirts for baselayers.  Be sure to size properly so
the back doesn't ride up exposing bare skin.  We want to keep that soggy, sweat
soaked material close to the skin....nice wet and warm!

I hardly ice climb anymore because over the last few years I have totally lost my tolerance to the cold. Maybe if I had climbed more with a trad ethic in the gym while practicing "pigeon wings" in wet t-shirts that would not have happened! ;D

Your advice is needed oh Master Luke! :P ::)

Offline lucky luke

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Re: trad climbing in a gym
« Reply #50 on: December 05, 2014, 08:33:59 AM »
Best reaction to the LL bullshit ever.  Priceless

Post Hijack now for a reminder:  With winter conditions in full swing don't forget
to stock up on plenty of cotton t-shirts for baselayers.  Be sure to size properly so
the back doesn't ride up exposing bare skin.  We want to keep that soggy, sweat
soaked material close to the skin....nice wet and warm!

I never said that. It is your bullshit!!!

I do say that you can stay dry by removing a wet layer that, in other way, you are going dry it by evaporation. what make a garment dangerous it is the speed at which the evaporation is done. In cotton, the evaporation is slow ; in the new garment, the evaporation is fast.

If some one transpire (it is the good term for Gortex technology) a lot, they are going to froze in new garment because evaporation need kilo calories of your body to transform liquid into gas. If you keep the water in a kind of pouch, and remove the pouch at the good moment... you will remove the water by an other way than transpiration and keep your calories to keep you warm, not for evaporation.

In the case of cross country skier, the energy produce by the exercise is more than the energy need for the evaporation. So, hydrophobic garment, which repulse the water from the body, will be better because the evaporation will help to lower the temperature of the body.

Try this, 10 person...5 with cotton lawer, 5 with hydrophobic garment...you ski for an our at a good speed. Stop. The one with cotton layer change there t-shirt and wait for an hour as in a belay. Do that for six ours, three times. Those with the new garment will be froze and the other will be o.k. So, we talk about six hours of exercise...climbing Huntington ravine for example.

I don't say any thing else than test it The result can change with outside temperature, body metabolism, wind, boot isolation, etc.

In my last post, I ask a question: is it going to cost more if you built a trad or a sport route? in term of liability. I am sure that it is the same. The gym was built in 1984, it is less than 28 years of life. Instead of making the sport more popular by a better understanding, you show that you can insult any body for few box. Instead of applying one economic principle, diversify your product, you try to concentrate the public in the only thing that you are good at (look at sport and bouldering...boulder was not popular before an now it is).

People understand what I am saying, as edmon said, they laught at your stupidity and don't say nothing about the way to gain a diversity of knowledge because you insult them.       

 
« Last Edit: December 05, 2014, 08:38:30 AM by lucky luke »

Offline DaveR

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Re: trad climbing in a gym
« Reply #51 on: December 05, 2014, 08:41:06 AM »
Best reaction to the LL bullshit ever.  Priceless

Post Hijack now for a reminder:  With winter conditions in full swing don't forget
to stock up on plenty of cotton t-shirts for baselayers.  Be sure to size properly so
the back doesn't ride up exposing bare skin.  We want to keep that soggy, sweat
soaked material close to the skin....nice wet and warm!

I never said that. It is your bullshit!!!

I do say that you can stay dry by removing a wet layer that, in other way, you are going dry it by evaporation. what make a garment dangerous it is the speed at which the evaporation is done. In cotton, the evaporation is slow ; in the new garment, the evaporation is fast.

If some one transpire (it is the good term for Gortex technology) a lot, they are going to froze in new garment because evaporation need kilo calories of your body to transform liquid into gas. If you keep the water in a kind of pouch, and remove the pouch at the good moment... you will remove the water by an other way than transpiration and keep your calories to keep you warm, not for evaporation.

In the case of cross country skier, the energy produce by the exercise is more than the energy need for the evaporation. So, hydrophobic garment, which repulse the water from the body, will be better because the evaporation will help to lower the temperature of the body.

Try this, 10 person...5 with cotton lawer, 5 with hydrophobic garment...you ski for an our at a good speed. Stop. The one with cotton layer change there t-shirt and wait for an hour as in a belay. Do that for six ours, three times. Those with the new garment will be froze and the other will be o.k. So, we talk about six hours of exercise...climbing Huntington ravine for example.

I don't say any thing else than test it The result can change with outside temperature, body metabolism, wind, boot isolation, etc.

In my last post, I ask a question: is it going to cost more if you built a trad or a sport route? in term of liability. I am sure that it is the same. The gym was built in 1984, it is less than 28 years of life. Instead of making the sport more popular by a better understanding, you show that you can insult any body for few box. Instead of applying one economic principle, diversify your product, you try to concentrate the public in the only thing that you are good at (look at sport and bouldering...boulder was not popular before an now it is).

People understand what I am saying, as edmon said, they laught at your stupidity and don't say nothing about the way to gain a diversity of knowledge because you insult them.       

 

Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah

Offline M_Sprague

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Re: trad climbing in a gym
« Reply #52 on: December 05, 2014, 11:17:14 AM »
Translated from LL speak:
"soaked material close ta tha skin....nice wet n' warm!

I never holla'd dis shit. Well shiiiit, it is yo' bullshit!!!

I do say dat you can stay dry by removin a wet layer that, up in other way, yo ass is goin dry it by evaporation. I aint talkin' bout chicken n' gravy biatch. what tha fuck cook up a garment fucked up it is tha speed at which tha evaporation is done. In cotton, tha evaporation is slow ; up in tha freshly smoked up garment, tha evaporation is fast.

If some one transpire (it is tha phat term fo' Gortex technology) a lot, they is goin ta froze up in freshly smoked up garment cuz evaporation need kilo caloriez of yo' body ta transform liquid tha fuck into gas. If you keep tha wata up in a kind of pouch, n' remove tha pouch all up in tha phat moment... yo big-ass booty is ghon remove tha wata by a other way than transpiration n' keep yo' calories ta keep you warm, not fo' evaporation.

In tha case of cross ghetto skier, tha juice produce by tha exercise is mo' than tha juice need fo' tha evaporation. I aint talkin' bout chicken n' gravy biatch. Right back up in yo muthafuckin ass. So, hydrophobic garment, which repulse tha wata from tha body, is ghon be betta cuz tha evaporation will help ta lower tha temperature of tha body.

Try this, 10 person...5 wit cotton lawer, 5 wit hydrophobic garment...you ski fo' a our at a phat speed. Y'all KNOW dat shit, muthafucka! Stop. Da one wit cotton layer chizzle there t-shirt n' wait fo' a minute as up in a funky-ass belay. Do dat fo' six ours, three times. Those wit tha freshly smoked up garment is ghon be froze n' tha other is ghon be o.k. Right back up in yo muthafuckin ass. So, we rap bout six minutez of exercise...climbin Huntington ravine fo' example.

I don't say any thang else than test it Da result can chizzle wit outside temperature, body metabolism, wind, boot isolation, etc.

In mah last post, I ask a question: is it goin ta cost mo' if you built a trad or a shiznit route, biatch? up in term of liability. I be shizzle dat it is tha same. Da toilet was built up in 1984, it is less than 28 muthafuckin yearz of game. Instead of makin tha shiznit mo' ghettofab by a funky-ass betta understanding, you show dat you can insult any body fo' few box. Instead of applyin one economic principle, diversify yo' product, you try ta concentrate tha hood up in tha only thang dat yo ass is phat at (peep shiznit n' bouldering...boulder was not ghettofab before a now it is).

Muthafuckas KNOW what tha fuck I be saying, as edmon holla'd, they laught at yo' stupiditizzle n' don't say not a god damn thang bout tha way ta bust a gangbangin' finger-lickin' diversitizzle of knowledge cuz you insult em.       
"
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Offline DGoguen

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Re: trad climbing in a gym
« Reply #53 on: December 05, 2014, 11:46:59 AM »
Oooooh. Now that makes sense!
WORD. Why didn't he just say it like that.

Thanks, DJ gluein for representing.
Don't Climb

Offline DaveR

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Re: trad climbing in a gym
« Reply #54 on: December 05, 2014, 11:49:03 AM »
Awesome Mark, now you can be the official NE Climbs French BS translater! ;)

Offline snowleopard

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Re: trad climbing in a gym
« Reply #55 on: December 05, 2014, 03:49:51 PM »
No word yet if Fruit of The Loom will be at Icefest for
testing to solve the great cotton controversy

strandman

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Re: trad climbing in a gym
« Reply #56 on: December 05, 2014, 04:18:49 PM »
17  here in Co and yes..I wore my all cotton drinkin sleeveless

sneoh

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Re: trad climbing in a gym
« Reply #57 on: December 05, 2014, 04:51:18 PM »
Here is something I found today - http://sanfranciscobay.sierraclub.org/yodeler/html/2009/09/winter4.htm
Draw your own conclusions.
The indisputable problem I see with LL's approach is the need to change out off the soaked cotton T shirt at some point before sleeping.  Damn if I have to go bare upper body in sub 20F temps to get a dry cotton shirt on!

Offline lucky luke

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Re: trad climbing in a gym
« Reply #58 on: December 05, 2014, 05:23:38 PM »
The indisputable problem I see with LL's approach is the need to change out off the soaked cotton T shirt at some point before sleeping.  Damn if I have to go bare upper body in sub 20F temps to get a dry cotton shirt on!

In the article, they said: Also, if you - or the clothing against your skin - are wet, the conduction of heat away from your body will accelerate. Water conducts heat away from your body 25 times faster than air.

If you take the cotton away from your body, you are dry and in better condition. i will climb Mt washington this winter and i will wear a cotton t-shirt to the end of the trail in huntington. I will be dry, completely dry, to go to the high wind and colder area to pinacle gulley. Depending of the weather, maybe I won't wear a t-shirt to the bottom of the waterfall. but in general, I have some.

In the text, they said:

Moisture, whether from perspiration or from outside the body, cools us through two separate mechanisms. In evaporative cooling following sweating, the secretion and evaporation of moisture transfers heat to the air.

When you are resting, evaporative heat loss is less important,

This is a mistake. Evaporative loss of heat is by perspiration. When you stop, you are warm and sweathy. But your metabolism don't produce as much heat as before because you are at rest. so your heat loss is very high and you don't produce enough energy.

is it one of you who write the article?

 

Offline steve weitzler

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Re: trad climbing in a gym
« Reply #59 on: December 05, 2014, 05:59:01 PM »
In my last post, I ask a question: is it going to cost more if you built a trad or a sport route? in term of liability. I am sure that it is the same. The gym was built in 1984, it is less than 28 years of life. Instead of making the sport more popular by a better understanding, you show that you can insult any body for few box. Instead of applying one economic principle, diversify your product, you try to concentrate the public in the only thing that you are good at (look at sport and bouldering...boulder was not popular before an now it is).

People understand what I am saying.



OK Luke: seing as you are responding to my post I will see if I can explain it to you in easy to understand English (of course I can't) but I will try. Liability insurance premiums are not calculated by the amount of sport routes or traditional routes in a gym because as the the insurance companies see it none of this matters. All that matters is the number of people using the gym (at least this is the way it was calculated when I owned the BRG. I am not sure this is the case now. As far as making the "sport more popular by better understanding." (I assume you are saying that we try to educate customers to the risks of climbing I would say you are correct. Any good climbing guide, teacher or gym should educate people to the risks of climbing and how to minimize those risks. As far as claiming we "insult any body for a few box,".well that contradicts your claim that "people understand what you are saying." Honestly I don't have a clue why you are saying. I rarely insult people but when I do I don't insult them for a box. I usually put things in boxes I don't need and store it for later. I can't believe I am getting in this debate. Off to the hang board in the basement for more pull-ups and to put my rock gear in a box until next spring when I can use it. I will also unpack the boxes with the ice gear in it because it is very cold out and the ice will be forming.