trad climbing in a gym

[Jeff]

If Scarlett is sport, I'd like to get into sport

[sneoh]

In sport, it is possible to climb hard route and harder you climb,more popular you are.

You are excused for having this misunderstanding.  It is hard to know anything about a thing which you have such a low opinion of!!

[Nemesis]

God I love her

[lucky luke]

As a part-time setter of many years, I can however say, given the constraints of gym walls/terrain and holds in general, it is quite hard to mimic an outdoor route most of the time.

The idea is not to "mimic" an outdoor route or to climb the route indoor.

The goal is to built our strength and to learn the technique.  I took last temptation because the second pitch is an obvious hand crack. I read to fast that it was the crux. The second pitch is 5.9+. An horizontal hand crack is easy to visualize for a beginner and easy to built in a gym. i am sure that some climber have great imagination and will do great training route for trad ethic.

As I said, there is not a lot of difference between climbing outside and inside in sport. You work hard move at the limit of your possibility. The holds are in plastic instead of rock. I don't find a lot of differences in the mentality too. The climber learn a complex movement and is able to reproduce that movement in other situation

In trad, the goal is not to reach the top, but to make a perfect movement in easy situation to be able to make a sequences of basic movement in an other situation.

[kenreville]

So let me get this straight....

You've never climbed Last Temptation? You were just perusing through your holy bible (the guidebook) and figured someway of incorporating what you think the climbing will be into a training routine in the gym? Is that it?

This is wrong on SO many levels, the least of which being that you're a 100% "trad" climber and not allowed to set foot on an indoor wall.

Good lord, EVERYONE knows that. 

[sneoh]

As I said, there is not a lot of difference between climbing outside and inside in sport. You work hard move at the limit of your possibility. The holds are in plastic instead of rock. I don't find a lot of differences in the mentality too.

Overall, I know what you are trying to state clearly.  As Ed had mentioned, there is a nugget of truth in there somewhere.
But, the quote above I do not think it is true for most who have had a year or two of climbing under their belt.
Best not to mix "indoor mentality" with "outdoor mentality".  That is one way to get hurt.
Though I might be taking it to the extreme; I have different set of gear (harness, rope, belay device, shoes, chalk bag, protection) for outdoors and in.  I never want to mistake one for the other.

[lucky luke]

You've never climbed Last Temptation?

I do training like that. For climbing the nose, I did a part of the girdle traverse with a haul bag. I went to some cliff to work out different kind of diedral, I did the pine tree eliminate crack and the two other on the right of them to practice off with. I work out my technique.

I most say that when you are unsure of a move, that you can fall on your pro, that you decide what you are going to make as a move without knowing what you are going to find on the other side...it is pretty fun to feel that you have enough training under your belt to stay on the cliff.

I remember climbing fastest gun at poko, on sighting all the pitches, and after I decide how to make a crux and did the moved, found myself caught in the real crux because I did a mistake and making a layback with a hand jam in a roof to a safe place to get out of the problem. It is different than knowing the move to do and making a routine to climb to the top. Not saying which one is more fun, butfor me it is the unknow and how my progress in technique that I like.   

[DaveR]

I did the pine tree eliminate crack.

Wow, you really are a hardman!

[kenreville]

Pine Tree Eliminate is not an offwidth, BTW. Try Peanut Gallery. THAT's an offwidth.

[strandman]

LL maybe you should read "how to train for the Nose"....

Anybody want to tell me how to train for Liquid Sky

and BTW   LT is a hand traverse NOT a hand crack...# 3 friend and a #6 stopper if I remember...shit LL don't read that......beta

[steve weitzler]

I do recall that the Boston Rock Gym had two granite (one finger and one hand) cracks that sucked up pro quite nicely. Very realistic.

[DaveR]

I do recall that the Boston Rock Gym had two granite (one finger and one hand) cracks that sucked up pro quite nicely. Very realistic.

I have been to many of the largest gyms in the USA when I was the head coach for Steve and those two REAL GRANITE cracks in the BRG were badass and how they were made was real cool. I remember working on them with Tom. 10D/11A slightly flaring wide hand crack that would take cams real nice and a thin finger crack that goes at about 12B that eats wires and small cams if you can hang on! There was also a WAY COOL off width that I got my knee stuck in the day after it was finished. We at one point were talking about how to open the crack a bit with car jacks! My knee was swollen and a great shade of black and purple for a month. That was not funny at the time and I don't know if Steve ever heard about that one.

Those two cracks are the only real trad climbs in a gym anywhere that I know of and only because they can both be lead safely by a competent leader on real gear!

Those 2 climbs will never be copied in any gym anywhere, they are special! Many of us who climb hard today owe a lot of it to the training that we were able to do at the BRG in the early days. They were one of the first gyms in the country and in the beginning were making their own holds from secrete because there were no commercial holds even being made!

[eyebolter]

My complaint about gym cracks is that they are always too hard to get people into crack climbing.  Imagine how popular (not) rock gyms would be if all the routes were at least 5.11.

I mean, how do you learn to crack climb on a 12b? 

[steve weitzler]

The fact is you can't learn to crack climb on cracks that are 12B but I do remember doing some aid climbing workshops utilizing them. I guess the philosophy of the BRG was always to try to mimic climbs and features that were found outdoors and to teach skills that were applicable to climbing outside. That is why we always offered self-rescue workshops, aid climbing workshops, anchor building etc. I find that many of todays gyms do a poor job of that. It seems gyms today want to be ropes courses, yoga studios, cardio, common workspace and all that other bullshit. Rock gyms should teach and focus on rock climbing. No doubt that other auxiliary activities help with climbing but if I want to do yoga I will go to a yoga studio, I will go to the YMCA if i want to do nautilus, and I will work at home or rent an office if I need to do work. Concerts, skateboarding etc aren't climbing. It's silly. Now that I have opened up that can of worms……...

[eyebolter]

Not slagging your gym Steve, it was state of the art for the time. Heck, I met my wife there when I was climbing in a cast.

But how about a plain old 5.6 hand crack?  Never seen one in a gym, though it would be far more useful than a painful 5.12. 

Gym climbers can't jam to save their ass, and I guess that is why.