Author Topic: Early Sport Climbing ?  (Read 4979 times)

strandman

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Early Sport Climbing ?
« on: December 07, 2014, 06:24:33 PM »
I was remebering an incident from many years ago- Yosemite, Glacier Point...we were trying Something On the Apron..supposedly 5.13//one pitch and 13 bolts.
We basically fell at every bolt, not quite every move, but.. along comes Russ Clune  "hey, your falling UP the Apron!"..He joined in and we fell all the way to the belay !
I went back quite a while later and did it w/o a problem 12B or so

Wasthis early sport climbing ??? Am I tainted ??  What is going on here ?

sneoh

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Re: Early Sport Climbing ?
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2014, 06:39:48 PM »
John, I am/was under the impression SC in the US started with Bullet The Blue Sky at Peni.  I guess it sets the bar for .12b.
I could be wrong though, more than likely actually.

Offline JBro

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Re: Early Sport Climbing ?
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2014, 02:59:55 AM »
It depends. Did you have a gallon of beer or a gallon of water?
Have a quiche, now, or maybe a tort.  You deserve it!
-bristolpipe

I like to keep things simple, even if it's faaaken painful and miserable.
-Stoney Middleton

This is grain, which any fool can eat, but for which the Lord intended a more divine means of consumption.
-Friar Tuck

strandman

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Re: Early Sport Climbing ?
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2014, 09:34:30 AM »
John, I am/was under the impression SC in the US started with Bullet The Blue Sky at Peni.  I guess it sets the bar for .12b.
I could be wrong though, more than likely actually.

Bullet was '87..Smith had a lot of stufff going on in '83  and Shelf started in '84

sneoh

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Re: Early Sport Climbing ?
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2014, 10:06:35 AM »
Thanks for the correction, John.
I guess SC came to Rumney and Sundown in earnest in '86/'87 with the additions of some "now classic" routes.
But I see from your description of Molson's Madness in the Cathedral Cave, that was back in '77!  First sport route in NH?

When I started on sport routes back in the early/mid '90s, it was still somewhat "avant garde" to hangdog and work a route bolt-to-bolt.
All that changed big time in the late '90's and "working a project" has certainly been the norm for the past 15 years or so.

in fact, to this day, Whitey still hardly hanghog to work a route.  Also, I remember doing a sport route "yo-yo" style with a friend.  We will be laughed at today if we were seen doing this.
Oh, my, how the times have changed and what have evolved to become the "norm" these days. 
I hang on to one holdout, when I do not borrow one, I still make my stick-clip out of branches and tape.  Much slower, more work, but much to the delight and dismay of the current generation!


strandman

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Re: Early Sport Climbing ?
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2014, 10:24:00 AM »
I remember mallery raving about Rumney around '87 or so.....I think it was Lulu ??? 2 bolts 5 pins ? something like that.

Yaniro was "hanging around. like a dick on a dog" on Grand Illusion in '79  fixed pins and Jardine was doing redpoin/pink point stuff in '76..

I guess the Prow was sport crack climbing when entirely fixed ?

I was at a crag yesterday. 100-200' high and 1/2 mile wide  30 pitches !!! I guess I'll be contacting Fixe for spring gear.  :D

Offline OldEric

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Re: Early Sport Climbing ?
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2014, 11:23:13 AM »
Problem is that you have to first define what is a sport climbs.  There are a gazillion epic fails all over the Interwebs tying to do that.  But according to most definitions you'd have climbs like Papa Woolsey and Loose Lady at JTree on the list.  Close to home Ventilator and its harder neighbors.  Near the end of the iron age many things were fully fixed/equipped all over the world.

Offline tradmanclimbz

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Re: Early Sport Climbing ?
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2014, 12:23:21 PM »
Sport climbing is all good fixed gear and G rated.  Sporty sport is PG rated. anything pg13 and harder is not sport...

sneoh

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Re: Early Sport Climbing ?
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2014, 12:55:32 PM »
Eric has a point.  I was thinking about JT too.
And climbs like P-38 / Shady Lady at The Gunks.
How about we say "modern" sport routes, which I think involve all or some of the following practice/antics (flame away!) -
all bolts/pins/angles (no fixed cam, stopper, etc), rap bolted, solid anchors, FA took more than 1 day, G/PG rated protection, does not let the lack of natural protection dictate where the route goes and the path it takes.


Offline tradmanclimbz

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Re: Early Sport Climbing ?
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2014, 01:34:25 PM »
I think the deffinition of sport climbing is really simple. All bolts or in rare cases a bombproof pin or 2. G or PG rated.  Bombproof fixed belays/rappell stations.  Modern sport = all stainless mechanicle or epoxy bolts.

Offline OldEric

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Re: Early Sport Climbing ?
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2014, 02:26:32 PM »
The protection rating (G or PG in your case) is too subjective - all ratings are - but pro ratings even more so.  The extreme case that always gets trotted out is the B-Y - covers the all fixed gear criteria but you will claim its not sport because of the R factor.  Fine but there are many slab climbs with spaced gear that fall into a  more vague area. 

sneoh

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Re: Early Sport Climbing ?
« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2014, 04:08:18 PM »
By and large, I believe Nick is right but there are always exceptions, etc.  Never one size fits all.

Offline eyebolter

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Re: Early Sport Climbing ?
« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2014, 04:51:16 PM »
"Sport" has evolved over time.  The original "sport" routes had gear where available and no anchors.

For an area with a "trad" reputation, the Gunks sure was a sport climbing cesspool in the 70's.  I mean, I remember falling all over Dirty Girty (then 8 now 9 I think) as a beginner because it was all pins.   My first 9 was Double Clutch because it was all pins at the crux; my first 10's were Country Roads and Never Never Land, again because it was all pins through the cruxes.

And if you want to climb sport trad, go to indian creek.  The same size cams for 70 feet and a lower-off is not as different from bolt climbing as the trads would like you to believe.  Jimmy Dunn went to the freaking top there on all his FA's - just another 100 feet of loose 5.10 or 11.  But nobody does that now.

strandman

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Re: Early Sport Climbing ?
« Reply #13 on: December 08, 2014, 05:02:29 PM »
Shit//Loose lady and Papa were 2 of my first routes in JT '81


Offline OldEric

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Re: Early Sport Climbing ?
« Reply #14 on: December 08, 2014, 05:07:49 PM »
Shit//Loose lady and Papa were 2 of my first routes in JT '81
Been  a closet sport weenie for 30+ years.  I knew it.