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Author Topic: racking shoulder length runners  (Read 411 times)

tradmanclimbz

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racking shoulder length runners
« on: August 31, 2004, 12:10:01 PM »

This is somthing I have run into  in the last few years. In about 1985 I learned to double my shoulder length slings with a twist  and 2 biners. This proved more usefull than racking them all over the shoulder. You can clip one biner to the pro and unclip the other biner from one strand of runner and the runner extends in a slideing X, This gives you the option of useing the runner at either half length or full length. Recently many climbers are trippling their shoulder length runners. This is really annoying because when the runner is trippled it is shorter than many quickdraws and useless as tits on a boar hogg. The runner must either be used as a short quickdraw or fully extended. Now if I wanted to use a freaking quickdraw I would have grabbed a draw of my rack, Not a shoulder length runner. When the runner is racked doubled w/slideingX it is IMNHOP much more usefull than the trippled variety. About 40% of the time I may leave the draw doubled and about 60% of the time I extend it to full length. Keeping in mind the fact that I have quickdraws to use in those situations that call for a short draw. If a shoulder length runner is trippled I am now forced to fully extend it 100% of the time. This makes the trippled runner 40% less usefull than the doubbled runner.
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cklein

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Re: racking shoulder length runners
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2004, 12:49:53 PM »

Just to play devils advocate:

Having a shoulder length runner tripled gives you the short length of a sportdraw with flexibility.  Nice when you're worried about cams walking or nuts pulling up/out, when clipping the first piece of Pro.
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tradmanclimbz

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Re: racking shoulder length runners
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2004, 01:10:40 PM »

Like i stated earlier. if I wanted to use a freaking short quick draw I would  have grabbed one off my rack in the first place. A trippled shoulder length  runner is a poor substitue for a quickdraw. It is a bulky floppy mess compared to a quickdraw. This is the reason that quickdraws were invented in the first place. On the other hand  a doubled runner is longer than a draw and thus gives me a usefull length that serves a purpose not covered by a draw in addition to its natural use at full length.
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Edge

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Re: racking shoulder length runners
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2004, 01:54:46 PM »

I carry some doubled, some tripled, and some over the shoulder.  

My partner on Vertigo also carried some dyneema that we carried doubled up over the shoulder.  A little long for my taste, but he likes 'em.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2004, 01:56:13 PM by Edge »
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charliebrown

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Re: racking shoulder length runners
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2004, 01:57:54 PM »

i dont get why you care that some climbers triple them...
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trad_doc

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Re: racking shoulder length runners
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2004, 02:46:46 PM »

One headache with the tripled draws is that it makes cleaning and passing the rack at the belay more involved as you need to rack multiple cams per biner, otherwise you end up with extra biners, so sorting the gear off the second takes more time.  My first partner always racked multiple cams per biner and carried all shoulder length slings tripled.  I found it to be a pain in the a$$ system--invariably the second cam will snag something as you're trying to slot the other and you have to fumble more to get at your gear.  I switched to one biner per cam, carry most slings over shoulder with one biner attached, and maybe two tripled on a gear loop.  One biner per cam has the advantage of letting you clip immediately if you're desperate.

How do you carry the double shoulder lenth slings?  I usually quad hitch them over the shoulder with a single biner--has the advantage that they never snag the other slings when you remove them...  
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slobmonster

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Re: racking shoulder length runners
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2004, 03:13:47 PM »

These days I don't even carry 'draws on Cathedral.  I bring ten or twelve 2' runners, and they go over the shoulder.  Duh.  

Maybe it's just me but I either want long extensions, 6" (QD length, or a tripled runner, some people call this a 'trad draw'), or no extension at all.  

4' runners, the long ones, I usually bundle up and stick near the back of my harness.  If something is big enough to warrant slinging with a 4' piece, it's usually big enough to wrap your arms around... another nice method (winter especially) is to clip the ends as if it were a rabbit runner, and throw over your shoulder.  If you need it, unclip one end, and pull.

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DLottmann

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Re: racking shoulder length runners
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2004, 04:50:08 PM »

Triple-ing 2ft dyneema slings is not bulky at all, and using some of the ultra-light biners out there, this set-up weighs less than a quickdraw, but has much more versatility.  This practice must bother you alot though since you've mentioned it before and brought it up again seemingly out of the blue.  Seems like a matter of preference to me and not a safety issue.  I usually start a multi-pitch route with them tripled and racked on my harness, and end the route with most slung over a shoulder.
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tradmanclimbz

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Re: racking shoulder length runners
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2004, 05:20:26 PM »

The only reason that It bothers me is the changeover when you switch leads.  I do have some over the shoulder but find that  say 5 draws and six runners doubled works for me.  Now lets say my partner hands me the rack and all six runners are trippled, now I basicly have 11 quickdraws. If the six runners are doubled instead of trippled then they serve a purpose of provideing an option between a draw and a full length runner.
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DLottmann

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Re: racking shoulder length runners
« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2004, 08:08:56 PM »

Quote
If the six runners are doubled instead of trippled then they serve a purpose of provideing an option between a draw and a full length runner.


How does a trippled runner not provide the same options?  When you correctly "make" a trippled runner, all you have to do is clip a biner into the pro, then unclip the rope biner from all but one of the strands and pull, voila, a full length runner.  If you are talking of trippling runners using the x-method you would use to make doubles I can see your point, but when making trippled runners you first clip your two biner's to the sling, pass one biner through the other, and clip it to the two strands.  It is a quick way to turn a quickdraw into a full-length.
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tradmanclimbz

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Re: racking shoulder length runners
« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2004, 08:33:56 PM »

thats not the point. when i grab the trippled runner it is allready too short and MUST be extended to provide a use that a draw  could not. therefore if I wanted somthing that short I would just grab a draw. If i grab the doubbled runner it is allready longer than the quickdraw. this is a very usefull length that I may choose to extend or may choose to leave doubbled.  If I had no quickdraws on the rack it would make sense to tripple some of the runners to use for clipping bolts or situations were i need a short draw to keep the rope away from a sharp edge or to keep the climber off of a ledge etc. The point is I allready have quickdraws on the rack so there is no need to make more of them. the doubbled length is perfect for extending cams that allready have a short sling on them. I can clip the doubled runner to the sling on the cam without the need to extend it. step saved. the doubled sling is long enough to clip to a stopper without extending (wouldn't do this with a trippled) step saved. I may also extend the doubbled runner. versitility. The trippled runner is as short or shorter than most draws  I allready have draws on the rack so there is no need for this function. I MUST extend the runner to use it in a manner not allready covered by another piece of equiptment on my rack. This = 50% less versitility than the doubbled runner.
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cklein

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Re: racking shoulder length runners
« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2004, 06:48:07 AM »

I would rather clip a tripled runner than a quickdraw to a piece of pro, unless I'm clipping bolts.  So if you get rid of the 5 quickdraws on your rack and replaced them with 5 tripled runners, then you would make your quickdraws 50% more versatile.    
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Schandy

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Re: racking shoulder length runners
« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2004, 07:04:06 AM »

This thread is 53.5% (+/- 2%) more confusing than the previous.  On regular rock I just carry about 7-10 over the shoulders, with two biners each, over my shoulder.  I find on rock, getting one off my shoulder isn't so bad.  I do carry a bunch of QD's when I want something shorter.  I agree that wadded up 10 ft runners are 300% harder to use than a quickdraw.  Thats why I carry quickdraws 110% of the time.  Carrying over the shoulders, over my shoulder, makes for really fast belay changeovers.  Once the gear is transfered, I just hand my partner the pile of runners.  Its really a matter of preference.  
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tradmanclimbz

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Re: racking shoulder length runners
« Reply #13 on: September 01, 2004, 07:06:17 AM »

when climbing at your limit on mixed climbs the stiffness and ease of clipping (desperatly) of a quickdraw is a real bonus. None of this matters on a climb like Moby Grape were you never have to place or clip gear from a sustained climbing position. When you up the grade (for me this means 5.9 and 5.10) and the steepness to the point that you are placeing gear from sustained possitions at the verge of falling then it helps dramaticly to have your system streamlined and dialed. For me this means that quickdraws have a place on the rack as do the full length runners. After useing  all the different racking options for full length runners I have found that the doubbled runner is dramaticly more usefull than the trippled runner provideing that quickdraws are also being used in the system.
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tradmanclimbz

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Re: racking shoulder length runners
« Reply #14 on: September 01, 2004, 07:12:26 AM »

The real point of this thread is to dramaticly lower my work productivity to the point that attempting to work is pointless. that level has been reached so as soon as this pot of coffe is done brewing I am going to bail, drive to deer leap and do some soloing ;D
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