Author Topic: So tell me again...  (Read 6332 times)

Offline tradmanclimbz

  • NEClimbs God
  • *****
  • Posts: 4530
  • Nick Goldsmith
Re: So tell me again...
« Reply #15 on: June 17, 2015, 06:26:37 pm »
Trust me  i know the pull the rope up and stuff it in the back pack drill. the heap i have been playing on lately has enough choss to bring it down when you pull the ropes...

Offline NEAlpineStart

  • NEClimbs God
  • *****
  • Posts: 728
    • Northeast Alpine Start
Re: So tell me again...
« Reply #16 on: June 17, 2015, 07:21:47 pm »
My cousin of 28 years of age died last Fall in an ATV accident. No alcohol involved and rode hard on machines his whole life. This time he mis-judged a paved corner and went into the woods at about 20 mph. A boulder met his head. Would have been easy to survive with a helmet on but he was "just going up the road".

I understand your "who cares what I do" attitude Strand. By nature climbers, especially the ones who paved the way, despise "rules".

That said, there is no arguing the potential for serious head injury in just about EVERY aspect of climbing. Bouldering, sport, trad, ice.

There is also no arguing that a helmet, in many cases, would have or could have reduced or prevented a trip to the hospital or morgue.

Yes, "Woulda, coulda, shoulda"....

Offline kenreville

  • NEClimbs God
  • *****
  • Posts: 738
Re: So tell me again...
« Reply #17 on: June 17, 2015, 10:09:24 pm »
The bottom line is it's a personal choice.

Let's keep it that way.

Offline DGoguen

  • NEClimbs Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 354
Re: So tell me again...
« Reply #18 on: June 17, 2015, 10:20:53 pm »
The bottom line is it's a personal choice.

Let's keep it that way.
Absolutely
Don't Climb

Offline M_Sprague

  • NEClimbs God
  • *****
  • Posts: 1824
Re: So tell me again...
« Reply #19 on: June 18, 2015, 12:34:45 pm »


What a dumb ass!  ;) Situation dependent. I do actually wear my helmet sometimes while rapping in to prep a route where the top out is such that I might miss something on the way down that could get knocked on me, but I make a point of clearing dangers on the way down like Ward and John describe. The one time that I knocked something significant on myself and was telling myself I should have had my helmet on, I was actually more pissed  for not inspecting more carefully.

I would actually like to have a helmet that is better designed for side and back of head impacts, more like a skateboarding helmet. I would probably wear it occasionally for some bouldering.
"Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is not a path and leave a trail."
-Ralph Waldo Emerson

The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbrait

Offline sarahw

  • NEClimbs Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12
Re: So tell me again...
« Reply #20 on: June 18, 2015, 01:40:34 pm »
I still have an initial thought of "gumbie" when I see somebody wearing one and it is a visual cue for me to be extra cautious in making sure they know what they are doing.

I always wear my helmet climbing and don't really care what other people think, but I do admit there is a small part of my mind that "worries" people will assume that I'm somehow incompetent because of my helmet.  But then I remember that my brains are really all that I have going for me.  I can do my job if I can still think.  I'm sure we all pass judgement from first impressions, but I try to not judge until I actually see evidence.

It is of course a personal choice, but I like it if my partners  wear them simply because I care about them as people.  I'm quite sure it doesn't make me less aware of my surroundings.  I'm on the lookout for potential threats like falling rocks, biners, waterbottles, apples...and well aware of where the rope is and how it could affect me or my partner in a fall.

Offline M_Sprague

  • NEClimbs God
  • *****
  • Posts: 1824
Re: So tell me again...
« Reply #21 on: June 18, 2015, 02:48:54 pm »
I still have an initial thought of "gumbie" when I see somebody wearing one and it is a visual cue for me to be extra cautious in making sure they know what they are doing.

.. and don't really care what other people think, but I do admit there is a small part of my mind that "worries" people will assume that I'm somehow incompetent because of my helmet. ..

And you absolutely shouldn't worry about what other's preconception might be. I am absolutely not advocating that one shouldn't wear a helmet, only that it is not such a black and white decision at all times, and one is not necessarily a dumb ass for not wearing one all the time. What I wrote above is obviously a little overstated for the sake of discussion and I throw it aside very quickly if I see evidence that a person is competent and aware. I am not going to be worried having Ward, Soon or Rob belay me because they have a helmet on (maybe DaveR  :P ) For me, having the sense that I can very easily smash my brains in helps keep me alert, aware of surroundings and less likely to do dumb runouts and such. It is easy to over rate the protective properties of climbing helmets and then inactivate one's normal self protective strategies. Sticking a helmet on skews my judgement. I can see it with motorcycles: Wearing a helmet I'll fly across the rock strewn tundra at 80 miles an hour where I would have likely died if I crashed. Without it I would have the sense not to even get on the thing. Wearing a helmet while on a well bolted, clean, solid and overhanging sport route is just way down on my safety priorities compared to double checking my knot, making sure I have an alert and skilled belayer etc.. Wearing one in the shower probably makes more sense for me. Edlinger should have worn one while he was drinking in his own house.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2015, 02:54:38 pm by M_Sprague »
"Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is not a path and leave a trail."
-Ralph Waldo Emerson

The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbrait

Offline markvnh

  • NEClimbs God
  • *****
  • Posts: 653
Re: So tell me again...
« Reply #22 on: June 18, 2015, 04:34:49 pm »
Have always worn a helmet climbing ice and in the mountains. Never wore one rock climbing until I realized that you didn't have to fall far to get seriously injured - mostly from reading ANAM. Started wearing one and lo and behold took a short fall on the second pitch of Youth Challenge, pulled a piece and wound up smacking my head / helmet somehow on the rock in the fall.

Though now at times I'll do an easy route at Rumney without and it does feel nice to not have it on when its warm out.

Have always worn one mountain biking and road biking. Never wore one skiing until about 12 years ago when I realized that I liked to really ski fast (was spending winters in CO with more wide open skiing) and that if I fell I was probably gonna get hurt bad (and not just head). And when I started to snowboard at the age of 48 that helmet was really needed (along with wrist guards!).

In any case it should be a personal preference.

Offline NEAlpineStart

  • NEClimbs God
  • *****
  • Posts: 728
    • Northeast Alpine Start
Re: So tell me again...
« Reply #23 on: June 18, 2015, 06:17:00 pm »
Agree it's a personal choice kinda thing. Speaking of which I'm not happy NH has passed a "hands free" law on cell phone usage which starts July 1st. I am no less safe talking on my cell phone while driving than talking to a passenger. Texting, I understand is a no-no, but talking? Always bothered me when I hit NY/NJ and the wife reminds me I have to be "hands free".

On a somewhat unrelated note that great pic of Lynn shows the old school method of having quick draw biner's opposed... no one still does that right? I try to encourage people to have gates facing the same direction, especially with those stiff short draws... The "unclipping from the bolt end" potential is much higher when they are opposed like that...

Offline ralbert20

  • NEClimbs Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 328
Re: So tell me again...
« Reply #24 on: June 19, 2015, 03:22:34 pm »
"I guess i don't understand why everyone is so concerned about others wearing a helmet ?  i don't give a fuck if you wear one or not..I really don't" -Strand

Really? Well, when your day/ life/ climbing career is ruined because you see someone you know die in front of you, let me know how this sounds.


Offline eyebolter

  • NEClimbs God
  • *****
  • Posts: 774
Re: So tell me again...
« Reply #25 on: June 19, 2015, 05:59:02 pm »
"I guess i don't understand why everyone is so concerned about others wearing a helmet ?  i don't give a fuck if you wear one or not..I really don't" -Strand

Really? Well, when your day/ life/ climbing career is ruined because you see someone you know die in front of you, let me know how this sounds.

I hear you, but I'm all about free choice.  Should we wear helmets while driving?  Way more people die from head injuries in cars than from climbing.

Everyone was all for mandatory vaccinations for the "huge" measles outbreak recently, when more people have been killed by tigers in the United States than by measles  in the last 20 years (no, I am not kidding- google it).

 If you aren't afraid of tigers or driving without a helmet (and I'm not), then leave me the FUCK alone to do what I think is best for me and my family.


Please.

« Last Edit: June 19, 2015, 06:00:45 pm by eyebolter »

Offline M_Sprague

  • NEClimbs God
  • *****
  • Posts: 1824
Re: So tell me again...
« Reply #26 on: June 19, 2015, 07:29:53 pm »
.. when more people have been killed by tigers in the United States than by measles  in the last 20 years (no, I am not kidding- google it).


Thanks to most being vaccinated. I think before immunization the US had about 3 or 4 million cases a year (less population then), with a death rate of around .2%, so that is around 6 to 8 thousand deaths per year, mostly children under 5. In cases of malnutrition the rates go up a lot. There are a few other side effects besides death though, like blindness. Say the immunizations kill 100 people in the US per year, and since the disease is communicable and not something you get from say an activity of your own choosing, a think there is a pretty compelling case for compulsive immunization. Sucks being one of the 100, but that is tough.

An average rate of 1.75 deaths from tiger attacks occurred in the US per year from 1998 to 2001 according to http://bigcatrescue.org/4-year-study-shows-tigers-500-times-more-deadly-than-dogs-in-us/

Also, the average climber's helmet is going to do crap protecting you from a tiger attack. You are better off wearing a Guy Fawkes mask on the back of your head.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2015, 08:52:13 pm by M_Sprague »
"Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is not a path and leave a trail."
-Ralph Waldo Emerson

The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbrait

Offline kenreville

  • NEClimbs God
  • *****
  • Posts: 738
Re: So tell me again...
« Reply #27 on: June 19, 2015, 07:56:42 pm »
"I guess i don't understand why everyone is so concerned about others wearing a helmet ?  i don't give a fuck if you wear one or not..I really don't" -Strand

Really? Well, when your day/ life/ climbing career is ruined because you see someone you know die in front of you, let me know how this sounds.

I hear you, but I'm all about free choice.  Should we wear helmets while driving?  Way more people die from head injuries in cars than from climbing.

Everyone was all for mandatory vaccinations for the "huge" measles outbreak recently, when more people have been killed by tigers in the United States than by measles  in the last 20 years (no, I am not kidding- google it).

 If you aren't afraid of tigers or driving without a helmet (and I'm not), then leave me the FUCK alone to do what I think is best for me and my family.


Please.

Seems like ralbert was just making an observation. No ones advocating mandatory use of helmets. Lighten up dude.

Offline JBro

  • NEClimbs God
  • *****
  • Posts: 1380
  • Doing God's work
Re: So tell me again...
« Reply #28 on: June 20, 2015, 08:39:47 am »
I just kind of assumed we all drove a short bus wearing a helmet. I put a wonder woman sticker on mine.

Have a quiche, now, or maybe a tort.  You deserve it!
-bristolpipe

I like to keep things simple, even if it's faaaken painful and miserable.
-Stoney Middleton

This is grain, which any fool can eat, but for which the Lord intended a more divine means of consumption.
-Friar Tuck

Offline David_G48

  • NEClimbs Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 339
Re: So tell me again...
« Reply #29 on: June 20, 2015, 09:07:50 pm »
Helmets are good and should be worn in my opinion but do not think for 1 minute that they protect you from major head injuries. They only protect from superficial wounds. Unfortunately the brain is floating in fluid surrounded by your skull and it is the violent slam of the brain against the skull that causes death. Helmets do little to prevent this from occurring but they do save you from all sorts of other less severe trauma. Don't think that just because you have a helmet on your head is invincible, the best protection for your head is to use your brain to climb safe.