Author Topic: So tell me again...  (Read 5870 times)

Offline tradmanclimbz

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Re: So tell me again...
« Reply #30 on: June 20, 2015, 10:12:55 pm »
I came off a motorcycle @110mph and hitch hiked to the hospital. can't tell me helmets don't work.

Offline crazyt

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Re: So tell me again...
« Reply #31 on: June 21, 2015, 06:43:41 am »
  Unfortunately the brain is floating in fluid surrounded by your skull and it is the violent slam of the brain against the skull that causes death. Helmets do little to prevent this from occurring 

That's wrong. The new helmets absorb a tremendous amount of energy so your brain doesn't have to.
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Offline David_G48

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Re: So tell me again...
« Reply #32 on: June 21, 2015, 06:58:30 am »

Mar 15, 2013 @ 5:45 PM
   
An update to the Consensus Statement on Concussion in Sport provides new information about diagnosing and treating concussions, and pointsto a lack of evidence that helmets prevent concussions.

According to the international team of researchers involved in the update, helmets will protect against injuries to the head, but will not do much to prevent serious internal damage. In fact, helmets can actually give riders a false sense of security and encourage them to be more reckless or aggressive.

“An important consideration in the use of protective equipment is the concept of risk compensation,” the authors wrote in a statement. “This is where the use of protective equipment results in behavioral change such as the adoption of more dangerous playing techniques, which can result in a paradoxical increase in injury rates.”

The information underscores the importance of using both safety equipment and caution in sports such as climbing, snowboarding and kayaking. Although helmets may protect you from falling rock or others dangers, they are no substitute for careful decision-making and planning.

The update, as well as more of the latest findings, come from the report’s fourth edition. The information was presented by researchers and clinicians from around the world at a two-day meeting in Zurich in November 2012.

Offline David_G48

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Re: So tell me again...
« Reply #33 on: June 21, 2015, 07:03:53 am »
Do not fall for all the hype helmet manufacture companies feed you. Yes helmets protect but have limitations. NFL has done vast studies on this and can not find a solution.

Offline strandman

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Re: So tell me again...
« Reply #34 on: June 22, 2015, 05:21:38 pm »
"I guess i don't understand why everyone is so concerned about others wearing a helmet ?  i don't give a fuck if you wear one or not..I really don't" -Strand

Really? Well, when your day/ life/ climbing career is ruined because you see someone you know die in front of you, let me know how this sounds.

I'll let you know.. 2 of my 3 best friends have died climbing..helmet would not have helped them..i don't climb or bike with people who wear helmets..just like people who don;t wear them don't wanna ride with me.

And Ya i have had people die in front of me from various causes  Like my parents..my life is ruined anyway..how about yours ?

Why do you care if I wear a helmet ??..or not..or die ?

Once..once in 35+ years have i has a rockfall hit..I'll take the odds and leave personal decisions to individuals

Offline strandman

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Re: So tell me again...
« Reply #35 on: June 22, 2015, 05:29:56 pm »
Oh Ya-- i have had a few concussions from various activites..dirt bike, football. etc.....if you really wanna be safe,, don't climb

My Doc said a year ago i would die..guess what ???  NOT MY TIME

Offline ralbert20

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Re: So tell me again...
« Reply #36 on: June 23, 2015, 08:58:00 am »
Well Strand, we all know you are a God.

Last thing I will post in this conversation.

The rockfall hit Gillers directly in the head. It was dropped on her by someone climbing who pulled a rock off. If she had been wearing a helmet, not only her life, but the lives of all the people she was climbing with that day would be different. She lived, but she should not have.

That was my point. That is why I care if someone wears a helmet. Do what you want, but I will never climb with you, nor anyone who doesn't wear a lid. I guess that is *my* choice.

I won't say I won't help in a rescue with someone who isn't wearing a helmet, but hopefully I won't ever have to see one, and hopefully someone you know doesn't have to go through something so preventable.

Offline M_Sprague

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Re: So tell me again...
« Reply #37 on: June 23, 2015, 10:32:34 am »
The thing is that if somebody was saved from a stray bullet by a bullet proof vest while walking down the street it is about the same thing. Do you insist that everyone walking with you wear a vest? A vest would certainly offer some protection if shot, but we make a judgement call about the risk. Also, not that I want to get into the details of the cause of Giller's accident, but in analyzing a situation, I would want to know what other judgments were made that day, such as where was she standing, was she being attentive,  was the rock chossy etc. Obviously if you are going to get hit in the head it is usually better to be wearing a helmet, but it is even better to avoid getting hit in the first place. I don't wear a helmet while walking in the city with buildings above me even though there is a slight chance I might get whacked, though I would in a construction site. It is all context. A blanket rule doesn't fit here imo.
"Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is not a path and leave a trail."
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The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. – John Kenneth Galbrait

Offline DaveR

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Re: So tell me again...
« Reply #38 on: June 23, 2015, 12:10:05 pm »
I think everyone has the right to make their own decision regarding helmets but I will have to go with Rob on this one.

Offline tradmanclimbz

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Re: So tell me again...
« Reply #39 on: June 23, 2015, 12:46:50 pm »
Again all the could have , would have and should have excuses are just that. excuses. Even the best climbers and belayers in the world make mistakes. Sh#t happens. Helmets don't weigh much more than a beini hat these days and just might make the difference between NBD and drooling in a wheel chair. the no helmet crowd need to simply embrace and accept the fact that they think helmets are geeky and that they are too cool to wear one. Trying to rationalize not wearing a lid just makes em look st00pid..

Offline frik

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Re: So tell me again...
« Reply #40 on: June 23, 2015, 12:59:37 pm »
Trad... FU

Offline NEAlpineStart

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Re: So tell me again...
« Reply #41 on: June 23, 2015, 01:03:09 pm »
Agreed Tradman. The whole "you want to be safe don't climb" argument reveals some of this anti-protective wear sentiment. And for others the "Non-Event Feedback Loop" is quite present here. I.E.

"I've climbed for 40 years and never had a head injury = I don't need to wear a helmet".

Eventually what was good luck can run out.

I still think it should be a choice, albeit an obvious one for those who have loved ones who would miss them.

We could compare this to the ski industry. 20 years ago helmets on the slopes were rare (I didn't even need one when I was racing gates at 6 years old). Today it is rare to see someone ski at a resort without a helmet (and note it still isn't required, which I'm happy about).

Offline tradmanclimbz

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Re: So tell me again...
« Reply #42 on: June 23, 2015, 01:56:11 pm »
frik. i must have hit a little too close to the truth ;D

Offline Bill

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Re: So tell me again...
« Reply #43 on: June 23, 2015, 02:11:21 pm »
My father-in-law refused to use a seat belt because it was dangerous.  He said it eliminated his chance to be "thrown clear in case of a wreck."

Offline DGoguen

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Re: So tell me again...
« Reply #44 on: June 23, 2015, 02:21:56 pm »
Agreed Tradman. The whole "you want to be safe don't climb" argument reveals some of this anti-protective wear sentiment. And for others the "Non-Event Feedback Loop" is quite present here.
I still think it should be a choice, albeit an obvious one for those who have loved ones who would miss them.
All you really need to hear from me is "I don't want to wear my helmet today".
The choice you are offering is wear a helmet or show the world you don't care about your loved ones. Seems kind of stacked.
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