Author Topic: New AMC hut in Crawford Notch  (Read 7313 times)

Offline Adoherty88

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Re: New AMC hut in Crawford Notch
« Reply #30 on: July 24, 2015, 07:43:11 am »
I wanted to point out that the AMC is an organization with many committees attached to it that function separately from each other and from Joy St. Some of those club do great work and I'm sure some of them don't.

As far as markvnh's experience at Artist's Bluff, that is very unfortunate. There are jerks everywhere and it's too bad this one was associated with the AMC.

I see in the other thread that got bumped that most of my points have been made before so no need to beat a dead horse. Glad to hear support for the AAC and Access Fund. I support both of those organizations as well as the AMGA. I think they all have a place in promoting climbing access and education.

Offline Strandman Fan

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Re: New AMC hut in Crawford Notch
« Reply #31 on: July 24, 2015, 07:51:42 am »
The only thing worse than the gung-ho AMCers are those NOLS people.  They're the worst, hands down.
Naw >:(
Bitter, angry, middle aged men are the worst.
I dunno about bitter and angry, but "middle aged" is a bit generous, don't you think?

Offline steve weitzler

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Re: New AMC hut in Crawford Notch
« Reply #32 on: July 24, 2015, 08:18:08 am »
Thought I might add a few observations from someone who has been hiking, climbing and skiing in the Whites for the last 42 years. I probably average 20-30 days per year in the Whites and have lived in various places (N. Conway and Bethlehem) at different points during that time. Coincidentally I did a trail run over Lafayette, Lincoln, Little Haystack, Liberty and Flume and back to my car via the bike trail in Franconia Notch on Wednesday. Much of what is being discussed here was readily apparent to me. First of all I do not believe that the AMC needs another hut. There are plenty of them already. Although I have never spent a night in one of their huts (and don't plan to in the future) I often do go in them to reload on water and occasionally snag a cup of coffee. I have always found the hut crew to be pleasant and accommodating people. At times I have been approached by a "summit person" from the AMC who will try to "explain" and offer advice to me. Although I do find them to a pain in the ass I an always pleasant and thank them for advice that is not needed and move on. I feel that there intentions are good even though they may be a bit misguided. I agree with Ward that the AMC has done a lot for rock climbing and access to some areas. I am not sure how much they have done recently but I know I was a volunteer in their beginners rock and ice program in the late 70's and early 80's and at that time they did a lot.  At the time there were no rock gyms to offer instruction and the AMC was one of the only places to learn in the metro Boston area. Many very well known, respected and accomplished climbers also volunteered instruction in the program. However, I do think that many of us were more interested in meeting new and prospective "she" climbers than we ever were really interested in the virtues of competent climbing instruction (ahem Strando and Tom C.) But before we castrate the AMC I think we should realize that the problem with overpopulating the mountains in New Hampshire with wankers and wannabes is not just the AMCs fault although they are a major player. There are many other organizations that have cabins and shelters in the Whites. The Randolph Mountain Club operates Crag Camp and Gray Knob. There are also numerous lean-tos and tenting sites scattered throughout. Dry River, Guyot and Hermit Lake come to mind. As well as numerous other groups like the Harvard Mountain Club cabin in Huntingtons. (I've never seen any Harvard types in that place. Just many unsavory characters…wink wink). The fact is that with the emphasis on healthy living and exercise more people are seeking opportunities to "explore" that. Back in the late 70's the state of NH allocated money to rebuild and expand the roadway through Franconia Notch. Included in that plan was a redesign of the Flume Gorge that included a huge visitor center, a paved bike path, bathrooms and many pull-offs and parking lots so that people could "explore" the wilderness. The idea was that if people saw the "wilderness" they would be more inclined to appreciate and preserve it. Kind of ass backwards thinking that they would destroy parts of the wilderness in order to preserve more of it. The reality is that it was a marketing plan to get more people to come to NH to vacation, visit and spend money. (they don't have a sales tax so they have to raise money somehow, tourism and tolls are as good a way as any). It was inevitable that as more people became familiar with the surrounding areas of the Whites that they would venture into the mountains. To accommodate those people organizations and business were created to meet the demand. As I was running back to my car on the bike path Wednesday I can't believe how many people were biking (some not so safely not to mention the number of vans transporting bikes and bikers to and fro) and how many people were visiting the Gorge. It was nuts. This was and is not the AMC's fault. It is the fault of the state of NH. That night as I was watching tv an advert came on about visiting NH. In the ad it says "come to NH to hike, climb, bike and see the natural wonders that NH has to offer." Product of the state of NH  bureau of tourism. As well, when I lived in N. Conway in the early 80s if you wanted to learn to climb you had EMS and IME as choices. Once again as more people have become more interested in healthy life styles those options have expanded. Fact is the AMC and other businesses associated with exploiting the mountains are here to stay and we can bitch and moan and maintain a nativist attitude or we can do our best to help educate and help those people who know less about it than us. As well we can continue to advocate and support "limited growth" and exploitation of the wilderness. Just saying.

Offline nuts

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Re: New AMC hut in Crawford Notch
« Reply #33 on: July 24, 2015, 08:31:15 am »
I'd like to see the idea of this new hut scratched.  It'll create a huge foot print and cater largely to the well-to-do.  Many of the AMC  huts were constructed in a different era with a different intent; it's obvious that this latest effort is a revenue generating venture.

Although the AMC has attributes in which many of us find contempt, it's an organization that has also done a fair amount of good.  The Whites are a range easily accessible to millions.  While the AMC has profiteered from and marauded forest visitors --which would come regardless-- it has also mitigated and centralized their impact. 

Rather than contribute to a tirade of huffy-puffy libelous forum posts, this thread would be far better served by formulating a course of action to stop construction of the new hut.  How are we as a community of climbers, hikers, and forest users going to prevent this proposal from coming to fruition? 

Having a strong presence at next week's Crawford Notch meeting is a good start.  Rally your family and friends.  And discuss talking points here.  We need an informed, mild-mannered unified voice.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2015, 09:13:26 am by nuts »
Chris Magness

Offline Adoherty88

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Re: New AMC hut in Crawford Notch
« Reply #34 on: July 24, 2015, 09:14:09 am »
Having a strong presence at next week's Crawford Notch meeting is a good start.  Rally your family and friends.  And discuss talking points here.  We need an informed, mild-mannered unified voice.

Agree with this. ELM made some really great points early on in this thread about the environmental impacts. I’d like to voice my opinion as well and that information is useful. If others have more to add, it seems like this could be a great place to address specific concerns.

For a cliff notes version of the scoping letter:

Comments are being sought to determine if this proposal meets the statutory purposes of the State Park System, by;
a. Identifying potential issues;
b. Identifying alternatives; and,
c. Identifying potential environmental effects of the proposed action and alternatives.

COMMENT PERIOD
A comment period of 30 days has been established beginning July 17, 2015 and ending August 15, 2015.

Witten comments and suggestions concerning the proposal can be sent to:
Jeffrey J. Rose, Commissioner
Department of Resources and Economic Development
172 Pembroke Road
Concord, NH 03301
Or Johanna.Lyons@dred.nh.gov

PUBLIC INFORMATION SESSION
Two public information sessions will be held for the public to review this proposal and ask questions of staff from the Division of Parks and Recreation and the Appalachian Mountain Club.

Wednesday July 29, 2015
4:00pm-7:00 pm
Department of Resources and Economic Development
172 Pembroke Rd
Concord, NH 03301

Thursday July 30, 2015
4:00pm-7:00pm
Crawford Notch State Park – Wiley House
Route 302
Harts Location, NH 03301

Offline neiceclimber

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Re: New AMC hut in Crawford Notch
« Reply #35 on: July 25, 2015, 08:05:16 am »
They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot
With an AMC Hut, a boutique
And a swinging hot spot

Don't it always seem to go
That you don't know what you've got
Till it's gone
They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot

They took all the trees
Put 'em in a tree museum *
And they charged the people
A dollar and a half just to see 'em

Don't it always seem to go
That you don't know what you've got
Till it's gone
They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot



Offline The other tomcat

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Re: New AMC hut in Crawford Notch
« Reply #36 on: July 25, 2015, 08:15:18 am »
Yep. And once they get their way on this hotel...hut, I mean hut, we will never be able to pry them off it, and they will begin the process again.

I always like that warm fuzzy feeling you get from the AMC, as if it's me on THEIR land, not the other way around.

Tom Stryker

Offline JBro

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Re: New AMC hut in Crawford Notch
« Reply #37 on: July 25, 2015, 10:00:02 am »
Yep. And once they get their way on this hotel...hut, I mean hut, we will never be able to pry them off it, and they will begin the process again.

I always like that warm fuzzy feeling you get from the AMC, as if it's me on THEIR land, not the other way around.

Was up near Lake of the Clouds a year or two ago when someone from the hut crew started screaming at two women for walking off trail and negatively impacting the environment. You know what else negatively impacts the environment? Ya, a giant faaaaken hut which attracts people and spews trash everywhere.

 
Have a quiche, now, or maybe a tort.  You deserve it!
-bristolpipe

I like to keep things simple, even if it's faaaken painful and miserable.
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This is grain, which any fool can eat, but for which the Lord intended a more divine means of consumption.
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Offline The other tomcat

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Re: New AMC hut in Crawford Notch
« Reply #38 on: July 25, 2015, 10:40:47 am »
Reminds me of climbing at Echo one fine day when they were re-stocking Greenleaf or whatever with a helicopter, that was pretty special, being unable to communicate with my partner 80 feet away...
Tom Stryker

Offline strandman

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Re: New AMC hut in Crawford Notch
« Reply #39 on: July 25, 2015, 11:15:35 am »
Or pulling out the shitters by heli...that's always nice

Offline neiceclimber

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Re: New AMC hut in Crawford Notch
« Reply #40 on: July 25, 2015, 11:22:31 am »
Correct me if I'm wrong, it looks as though the access road to the "hut" would impact parking for Shoestring Gully. I imagine if they plow the road you will not be able to park where the AT crosses the road. Not a huge deal but being a somewhat lazy climber I'd rather not have to walk even further on a road. Not that Shoestring is a obscure climb, but with an AMC hit across the way you can kiss goodbye any hopes of finding it remotely empty. However, it probably increase the chances for forgotten/dropped gear booty.

Offline The other tomcat

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Re: New AMC hut in Crawford Notch
« Reply #41 on: July 25, 2015, 01:31:05 pm »
Which begs the question, if they already have a giant hotel right smack in the notch, since no where else would do, why do they need a " hut ", a mile away?
Tom Stryker

Offline Nick Grant

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Re: New AMC hut in Crawford Notch
« Reply #42 on: July 25, 2015, 01:47:24 pm »
—Bitter, angry, middle aged men are the worst.

—I dunno about bitter and angry, but "middle aged" is a bit generous, don't you think?


"Aged man" would be the best choice here.

Offline strandman

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Re: New AMC hut in Crawford Notch
« Reply #43 on: July 25, 2015, 04:21:57 pm »
—Bitter, angry, middle aged men are the worst.

—I dunno about bitter and angry, but "middle aged" is a bit generous, don't you think?


"Aged man" would be the best choice here.
[/quot

Except me of course  :D But thanks for the bitter/angry compliment

i hope people get run over on 302

Offline strandman

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Re: New AMC hut in Crawford Notch
« Reply #44 on: July 27, 2015, 10:14:39 am »
A Via Ferrata might be nice as well..maybe on Wiley's ?