Author Topic: Missing Anchor Bolt on The Prow  (Read 7190 times)

Offline M_Sprague

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Re: Missing Anchor Bolt on The Prow
« Reply #15 on: September 10, 2015, 06:41:19 PM »
Mark, perhaps you could do a presentation sometime on glue-in and rawl 5 piece, pros and cons and installation?

I wouldn't mind, as long as I could get Dave Quinn to come along. I consider myself experienced and take pride in craftmanship, but by no means a metalurgical expert. Dave has been doing a ton of bolt replacement at Rumney lately with Chris Smith and has been conversing with Jim Titt of Bolt Products a lot http://www.bolt-products.com/ Dave has also worked out some great procedures for removing the old bolts. I know he and Chris had at least one presentation for the RCA to make people more aware of what they are falling on. It is pretty freaky when you start replacing old bolts and  you see how sketch many of them are inside, even ones that look pretty decent on the outside, so yeah, your call  to get organized and get acting is timely, Chris.

« Last Edit: September 10, 2015, 07:32:05 PM by M_Sprague »
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strandman

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Re: Missing Anchor Bolt on The Prow
« Reply #16 on: September 10, 2015, 09:29:02 PM »
....when Steve re-did this line, in proper style, it became one of the cliff's great climbs.

that pretty much NEVER gets done...

Doesn't make it any less brilliant..bolting to make a route "safe for all"  is fucking bullshit

Offline Jeff

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Re: Missing Anchor Bolt on The Prow
« Reply #17 on: September 11, 2015, 12:38:36 PM »
It is top roped a lot these days-- probably to the point of being pretty polished. :o Would probably make the lead even more exciting, although at my current standard, I'll never know :P

Offline NEAlpineStart

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Re: Missing Anchor Bolt on The Prow
« Reply #18 on: September 11, 2015, 01:03:32 PM »
History of The Arete:

"Paul Ross cleaned and bolted the route on rappel before Ross, Mike Heintz, & Ed Webster top-roped the climb. Webster & Ross then made the historic first ascent on September 3, 1978. In 1979, after the climb had become a famous and frequently climbed testpiece, Paul Ross chopped all of the protection bolts following the 1979 "Spanish Inquistion" bolting debate held in North Conway. Rick Fleming & Joe Lentini subsequently replaced the crux bolt on the lead, but with aid, in 1980, pulled their rope, then did the climb from the ground up in one push. Given the current R rating, the route has never regained its former popularity, is very rarely led- and in the opinion of the author, since the crux bolt was replaced using aid, the entire climb should have all of its bolts replaced and be restored to its original condition". - Pg 65, Rock Climbs in the White Mountains, 3rd Edition, by Ed Webster

Seems like this wasn't a retro-bolt argument at the time Strandman, but an argument against rap-bolting. What are your views today on FA's being established by rap-bolting?

I think it's obvious that rap-bolting FA's has become much more acceptable 25 years later, and if this route was done today in that style it wouldn't have been chopped.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2015, 01:05:09 PM by NEAlpineStart »

Offline Admin Al

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Re: Missing Anchor Bolt on The Prow
« Reply #19 on: September 11, 2015, 02:10:41 PM »
Ventilator was rap bolted!
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Offline tradmanclimbz

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Re: Missing Anchor Bolt on The Prow
« Reply #20 on: September 11, 2015, 02:26:48 PM »
There should be no argument against restoreing the climb to its origional FA vision.  If someone wanted it done in a different style they should have done it first.

Offline NEAlpineStart

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Re: Missing Anchor Bolt on The Prow
« Reply #21 on: September 11, 2015, 02:44:11 PM »
Ventilator was rap bolted!

6 years earlier too. I wonder why this route was left untouched after this "Inquisition".

Offline frik

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Re: Missing Anchor Bolt on The Prow
« Reply #22 on: September 11, 2015, 04:26:05 PM »
Apples to oranges.... Ross chopped his own route. I guess Ventilator stays because Joe wasn't all that bent out of shape by all the bolt hub-bub. Also the route had been climbed for 4 or 5 years by the time the bolt wars were breaking out.  Technically, is what Paul did even "chopping"? And what exactly is the FA condition of the Arete?

strandman

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Re: Missing Anchor Bolt on The Prow
« Reply #23 on: September 11, 2015, 05:49:27 PM »
Right..Paul chopped his own route..making it an open project in my book.  Arete is a classic, i never did it as originally bolted, but the current climb is one of the great pitches on the crag.The original "bolting meeting" was because of this route (and maybe 1-2 others)

Ventilator is a pile..poorly bolted  and the reason it never got fixed properly is 'cause it's a sucky route.

Trad..i don't give a fuck about modern ethics...especially on a traditional crag. i have said it a million times..the popularity of a route often means nothing about the quality.

Offline The other tomcat

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Re: Missing Anchor Bolt on The Prow
« Reply #24 on: September 11, 2015, 05:54:12 PM »
Yup! No one gave a shit whether a route would be popular, we cared about them being hard. And hard could mean more than " just the moves ".
Tom Stryker

strandman

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Re: Missing Anchor Bolt on The Prow
« Reply #25 on: September 11, 2015, 05:57:42 PM »
John bachar said to me in Josh one time " I don't give a fuck about people..I want to put up routes that will never be repeated"

Offline tradmanclimbz

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Re: Missing Anchor Bolt on The Prow
« Reply #26 on: September 12, 2015, 06:59:25 AM »
 the I don't give a fuck about anyone other than myself attitude is exactly why I don't have a lot of respect for those kinds of routes.  I know a guy who has quietly soloed the Direct Direct and Onsighted BY yet does not feel the need to put up routes that no one will repete. He is a super nice guy. Honold is super nice guy and dosent advocate X rated  climbs. Solo to your hearts content but if you are going to fix gear on the climb do a decent job of it.   Putting up a bolted climb that is so fucked up that no one will repeat it and  and then thumping your chest over it is one of the most assinine aspects of our sport.

 Sounds a lot like  paul was pressured into chopping the arette.  Sounds like tampering with a wittness so perhaps not an open project as you suggest.

Offline kenreville

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Re: Missing Anchor Bolt on The Prow
« Reply #27 on: September 12, 2015, 08:04:22 AM »
I took interest in The Arete in 1990 and scrubbed the entire route before climbing it. After I did, the climb saw a mini burst in popularity as several locals (friends) jumped on it. I never felt that the route was hard to protect or run-out. The one bolt is in the proper spot.

I have not been on it since the bottom flake fell off, but I have looked at the start and I think it is much harder than before the flake came off. That IMO is what keeps most peeps off it.

Offline The other tomcat

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Re: Missing Anchor Bolt on The Prow
« Reply #28 on: September 12, 2015, 08:37:11 AM »
If you think back about those days Nick, you realize it had nothing to do with "good jobs" or "bad jobs", or popularity. Everyone I knew considered the best new routes to be all clean gear. If you had to place a pin, that was a compromise, a single bolt placed from a stance on lead a further compromise, two even more, rap placing a huge compromise, because with each step you took more and more of the power of the rock to determine the layout and outcome away. You weren't supposed to " create " something, you were supposed to deal with it as served by nature.

The idea of using the rock as some piece of canvas to paint your own whims on comes much later.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2015, 08:41:18 AM by The other tomcat »
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Offline tradmanclimbz

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Re: Missing Anchor Bolt on The Prow
« Reply #29 on: September 12, 2015, 09:36:41 AM »
Tom you are talking about  going out to the cliff. finding a line and climbing it in a certain style to have fun. not quite the same thing as someone  bolting something with ground fall specificly as a statement/ challange to the community and then declareing that climb to be a piece of shit for eternity.