Author Topic: when things go wrong  (Read 8801 times)

Offline lucky luke

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when things go wrong
« on: November 17, 2015, 10:32:03 am »
In amc outdoors nov./dec. 2015, they write an article for when the things go wrong. They insist on the fact that people have a misconception about what a survival scenario look like.

they say that survival situation occur when it's dark or getting dark, when the weather is bad, and when someone suffers a potentially debilitating injury.

they compare that with with the way survival skill are taught: weather conditions are confortable; injuries are abscent; and the setting is generally daytime, with adequate light.

They state that in reality, you are less prepared for a real-life emergency than you might think.

In climbing, it is not true that you most follow the best climber. A technique used by an expert is not necessarly good for you because what you think you know is what will kill you. an expert who climb each day for three months know a lot more than some one who ice climb ten times during the season.

I think that most people most have many experiences in different conditions and that the amc group can be a good way to learn to see the danger. As tradmanclimbz state that the ice crack in the lake and dagger can fall down...one most think that he was too slow or late to the summit and didn't plan for the danger. Although they can just mention the danger to impress without being in a critical situation. One of my friend was hit by a dagger.   

Offline DaveR

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Re: when things go wrong
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2015, 01:54:52 pm »
As tradmanclimbz state that the ice crack in the lake and dagger can fall down...one most think that he was too slow or late to the summit and didn't plan for the danger. Although they can just mention the danger to impress without being in a critical situation.   

Wow, you are a total ASSHOLE!


Offline JBro

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Re: when things go wrong
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2015, 02:46:11 pm »
If I was so fixated on danger lurking everywhere as LL seems to be I think I would have a hard time getting out of bed every morning. I wonder if he keep a bazooka in his chalk bag on the off chance he gets mugged at the crag?
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Offline strandman

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Re: when things go wrong
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2015, 05:25:07 pm »
I know..1/2 meter of snow last night,,avalanche off roof,i went back to bed.  Later my wife says "no easy day today,, trad snow moving"    I even had to switch from my LLBean morning shoes to outdoor gear  !  Tommorow we much descend the hill of horrors and go to a date with death in Denver

Maybe we return safe

Nemesis

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Re: when things go wrong
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2015, 05:30:39 pm »
Oh yeah, I learned a lesson climbing with an AMC group, the goddam hard way.  One of the "leaders" says, "stand right here and belay so and so". I look up and see I'm right at the base of a funnel and reply, " isn't this a REALLY bad spot?" As soon as I got the words out, I took a football sized chunk of ice in the cheek.  Thanks Dick. 
Another "AMC LEADER" I climbed with the same weekend had me untie TWICE on Standard Route(Frankenstein) to fix his rope management fuck ups.  I've never even had a close second to that clusterfuck.  Learn to take care of yourself in the mountains.  Fuck the AMC

Offline tradmanclimbz

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Re: when things go wrong
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2015, 06:45:29 pm »
Luc, nice try. I tend to climb in the dark a lot in dec and january. the days are short. I started up the black dike @ 4:30pm once. I suppose that is too late for you? ;)

Offline lucky luke

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Re: when things go wrong
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2015, 07:01:17 pm »
Luc, nice try. I tend to climb in the dark a lot in dec and january. the days are short. I started up the black dike @ 4:30pm once. I suppose that is too late for you? ;)

I think that what I am saying is pretty clear. If someone follow your advice, he will climb in dangerous situation with an autoblock because it is safe .. in your opinion.
I prefer that people see the danger and avoid it. In some condition, the black dike is a three and climbing at four, with the moon, it is easy.

I think that it is more important that the people be prepare in various condition with many method to be able to choose the one that they are most confortable with than to follow someone who say that the other is stupid without understanding that wrapping the rope around the leg and an autoblock work in the same manner.


Offline Admin Al

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Re: when things go wrong
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2015, 08:15:16 pm »
In some condition, the black dike is a three and climbing at four, with the moon, it is easy.

I've done the Dike many times and have NEVER seen it in Grade III conditions. And the moonlight really doesn't help you much at all on the Dike.
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Offline kenreville

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Re: when things go wrong
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2015, 09:54:59 pm »
Luc, nice try. I tend to climb in the dark a lot in dec and january. the days are short. I started up the black dike @ 4:30pm once. I suppose that is too late for you? ;)

I think that what I am saying is pretty clear. If someone follow your advice, he will climb in dangerous situation with an autoblock because it is safe .. in your opinion.
I prefer that people see the danger and avoid it. In some condition, the black dike is a three and climbing at four, with the moon, it is easy.

I think that it is more important that the people be prepare in various condition with many method to be able to choose the one that they are most confortable with than to follow someone who say that the other is stupid without understanding that wrapping the rope around the leg and an autoblock work in the same manner.

Beware!!! This post is as smelly rotten as a troll can be. 
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Offline DaveR

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Re: when things go wrong
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2015, 07:20:42 am »
In some condition, the black dike is a three and climbing at four, with the moon, it is easy.

Now we are certain you are full of shit LL. Have you ever even climbed the Black Dike?

1. I have done the Black Dike many times over the last 25 years and have done it when it has been at it's fattest and it has never even been close to a grade 3.

2. I love to climb by full moon and have done the Dike on a full moon night along with many other routes in NH and VT. You are in the shadow of the WG Ridge and a full moon is almost NO help on the Dike.

Offline strandman

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Re: when things go wrong
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2015, 10:23:09 am »
If the Dike is 3..does that mean pinnacle is grade 1 ?  I thought grades didn't matterLL    ????

Reminds me a bit of a fromer NC local whos once said,, i'm not kidding, that Sliding board in the wet is like 5.11 friction  " no, you idiot,,it's wet 5.8"

Offline lucky luke

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Re: when things go wrong
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2015, 04:56:35 pm »
In some condition, the black dike is a three and climbing at four, with the moon, it is easy.

I've done the Dike many times and have NEVER seen it in Grade III conditions. And the moonlight really doesn't help you much at all on the Dike.

what is for you a grade three?

Offline DaveR

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Re: when things go wrong
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2015, 06:03:38 pm »
In some condition, the black dike is a three and climbing at four, with the moon, it is easy.

I've done the Dike many times and have NEVER seen it in Grade III conditions. And the moonlight really doesn't help you much at all on the Dike.

what is for you a grade three?

I guess when we all get as good as you it will only be a grade III.

Have you ever climbed the Dike LL?? AT night?? You sure spout a lot of shit and hurl a lot of insults!

It has never been a III at it's fattest and at night even with a full moon and great weather it is IMO a route to be taken very seriously!

Offline tradmanclimbz

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Re: when things go wrong
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2015, 06:41:36 pm »
Actually it was a full blown Blizzard. We climbed P 1 of the dike and P1 of Fafnir. We had a late start due to car problems.  we got hit by many heavy snow sloughs. The 1st pitch of fafnir was tricky with so much snow plastered to it and getting nailed by sloughs every 15 min.  we rapped down to our packs and decided that the talus field was loaded enough that it might be a bit unstable.  not feeling as lucky as Lucky Luke we decided not to practice our Avy terrain skills in a blizzard and thought it might be good fun to climb out the Dike.     It was March 28th 2008 We started back up the Dike at 4:30pm I ran up P1 of the dike and brough Eric up.  I took this shot of Eric starting P2 at 5:07pm It was his first ever lead of P2 of the Dike. It was full darkness by the time he made belay. I followed  and led out on P 3. we both got hammered several times by powder sloughs. It was great fun 8) the butt slide back to the  bike path was also great fun ;D Yes I admit I am slow and dangerous...... I climb Ice and I am Not Uli Steck. He is fast and dangerous ;)
« Last Edit: November 18, 2015, 06:55:27 pm by tradmanclimbz »

Nemesis

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Re: when things go wrong
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2015, 06:45:22 pm »
Nice pic trad