Author Topic: Lost climbers- Odell Gully 2/5/16  (Read 2339 times)

Offline NEAlpineStart

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« Last Edit: February 10, 2016, 02:26:24 pm by NEAlpineStart »

Offline Admin Al

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Re: Lost climbers- Odell's Gully 2/5/16
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2016, 02:15:27 pm »
sheesh...
Al Hospers
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Offline strandman

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Re: Lost climbers- Odell Gully 2/5/16
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2016, 03:47:53 pm »
I'm hearing Sonny & Cher   " the beat goes on, ya ,,ya,,ya"

Offline lucky luke

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Re: Lost climbers- Odell Gully 2/5/16
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2016, 10:26:00 pm »
http://www.mountwashingtonavalanchecenter.org/2016/02/10/lost-climbers-february-5-2016-2/

i think that this point is very important:  "The ability to navigate in adverse conditions should be in the skill set of anyone venturing into Huntington Ravine, particularly when climbing a long technical route."

But what is the step to acquire the skill to navigate in adverse conditions? I think that mt Washington is a v ery good place to learn that skill, but gradually. Some one can climb the mountain in good weather to find the topography of the place...it is possible to climb lion head in bad weather and venture on the alpine garden with winds of 70 miles per hours...finally, one can climb a route like odell in adverse condition.

I can't think that some one can find his way in a storm if he didn't have a basic knowledge to read a map and to understand the change of wind direction with the topography. With the small scale model of the mountain at pinckam notch, it is really easy to know how to escape the mountain.

Offline Jeremy Cote

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Re: Lost climbers- Odell Gully 2/5/16
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2016, 01:19:45 pm »
RC is like the Sarlacc from Star Wars--it just swallows people up.


Offline NEAlpineStart

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Re: Lost climbers- Odell Gully 2/5/16
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2016, 02:59:40 pm »
But what is the step to acquire the skill to navigate in adverse conditions?

Learn how to create a "White Out Navigation Plan"

This one needs updating as my time estimates are a bit off:

https://davidlottmann.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/route-card1.pdf

That was for Winter Lion's Head. With www.caltopo.com you can make amazing route plans for anywhere, and it's free software.

When I have time I'll be uploading the GPS coords mentioned in the MWAC post to CalTopo on a custom map. Once that's done I'll share it publicly.

Of course you'll need some basic map & compass skills that some newer technical climbers lack. Then there are those that argue carrying a compass in the Whites is silly ;)
« Last Edit: February 11, 2016, 03:01:42 pm by NEAlpineStart »

Offline tradmanclimbz

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Re: Lost climbers- Odell Gully 2/5/16
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2016, 05:49:32 pm »
what happens when you are used to useing the phone to find your way arround the woods and the battery dies? oopsy ::)

Offline NEAlpineStart

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Re: Lost climbers- Odell Gully 2/5/16
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2016, 07:55:22 pm »
what happens when you are used to useing the phone to find your way arround the woods and the battery dies? oopsy ::)

That's why you gotta keep dem' low tech skills sharp esse... I may be into using tech but it is backed up by less fragile options.

Offline lucky luke

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Re: Lost climbers- Odell Gully 2/5/16
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2016, 10:21:28 pm »
But what is the step to acquire the skill to navigate in adverse conditions?

Learn how to create a "White Out Navigation Plan"

the white out plan and good weather plan most be the same. To navigate in adverse conditions, one can things at a compass. But in cold windy weather....good luck. Knowing how the wind move around the mountain, spotting cairn, to be able to estimate the topography of the mountain by looking at a maps....knowing your speed by the number of step to evaluate a distance...some good climber from Everest should be able to gave more sigh to navigate.

For sure, keep the wifi for the hotel. One can find is way down by experience. Experience acquire by gradual difficulty in the wild. It is like youngs wolfs learn to kill there prey. at the begining, they play around the den, going a little bit farther after each success. 

Offline steve weitzler

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Re: Lost climbers- Odell Gully 2/5/16
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2016, 02:12:34 pm »
Experience is gained through bad judgement.......and surviving. That being said, if I knew then what I know now I probably wouldn't have done a fraction of the climbs I have.

Offline Jeff

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Re: Lost climbers- Odell Gully 2/5/16
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2016, 09:25:24 pm »
Experience is gained through bad judgement.......and surviving. That being said, if I knew then what I know now I probably wouldn't have done a fraction of the climbs I have.

+++Amen

Offline NEAlpineStart

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Re: Lost climbers- Odell Gully 2/5/16
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2016, 07:49:39 pm »
some good climber from Everest should be able to gave more sigh to navigate.

Get ready for a bubble burst here. I currently have a very experienced Everest climber in my AIARE 2 course ATM.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phil_Crampton

He attended an AIARE 1 a couple weeks ago and is observing these courses so he can try to bring some structured avalanche awareness back to his 40+ Sherpa Team... Some things he has taught me the last couple weeks:

1) Everest climbers (and most high altitude climbers) in general have little snow sense. If it is snowing, they leave the mountain and go home. It's too dangerous (kinda goes against your whole "climb in the snowstorm mentality".

2) They can't navigate. Most climbers, guides, and Sherpa follow very defined routes. The Sherpa's (who live there) would be lost if they were brought to a new mountain route a few kilometers away. He said most don't know how to use a compass, though they love to search for buried beacons during practice (but hate wearing them).

3) We handle cold better. Phil thought our field session at 3000 feet today was a bit brutal and was amazed guides were up on the summit cone today in -50 wind chills. These conditions would keep most high altitude climbers, guides, and sherpas from leaving their sleeping bags. Washington really is a great training ground!

Endurance, Fitness, Money, and luck (handling high altitude), will get you up Everest. Skills? Few are needed... especially navigational skills...
« Last Edit: February 14, 2016, 07:24:17 am by NEAlpineStart »

Offline NEAlpineStart

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Re: Lost climbers- Odell Gully 2/5/16
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2016, 07:54:41 pm »
To navigate in adverse conditions, one can things at a compass. But in cold windy weather....good luck.

I'll elaborate for you. In cold windy weather, if one has a "White Out Navigation Plan", one already know's what bearing to follow to reach, say... the Alpine Garden Trail, or better yet the Escape Hatch Shovel.... this was figured out in the warmth of home (or Frontside Grind). There isn't much of an issue using a compass in harsh conditions if one already knows what bearing one must follow... so... "good luck"? No.... Good planning...
« Last Edit: February 14, 2016, 07:24:40 am by NEAlpineStart »