Author Topic: democratic sit in  (Read 1739 times)

Offline z.st.jules

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democratic sit in
« on: June 24, 2016, 08:56:18 am »
Let me preface with the fact that I am not a member of either party and cannot actually even vote in the US...

That being said, the sit-in that is going on seems really bizarre... The bill that the democrats are protesting to get passed is bizarre.
It wants to ban all folks on the no fly list from being able to buy guns. Sounds good, but isn't the no fly list made up of some 700,000 people? most non-white? seems to target specific people groups?

Sounds like a pretty racist bill to me. Am i missing something?

Offline eyebolter

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Re: democratic sit in
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2016, 10:26:10 am »
Also clearly unconstitutional, not that that ever mattered to either party.   The government is not supposed to deprive people of their rights without due process.  Some random list made up by who-knows-who hardly meets that test.  You do remember that Senator Ted Kennedy was on the no-fly list?

Offline z.st.jules

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Re: democratic sit in
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2016, 01:54:07 pm »
Yes the lack of due process is whats seriously confusing me

Offline alwoodsmithy

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Re: democratic sit in
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2016, 02:10:49 pm »
47,000 people on it in 2013 but hey what's the difference, right? ;)

Offline strandman

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Re: democratic sit in
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2016, 05:57:38 pm »
Read the second part of the second amendment.......

Offline z.st.jules

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Re: democratic sit in
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2016, 09:12:06 pm »
47,000 people on it in 2013 but hey what's the difference, right? ;)

Im sorry if this is incorrect but this is where I got that number from: "As of 2014, the government had a master watchlist of 680,000 people, forty percent of whom had “no recognized terrorist group affiliation.” Taken from an article from Gawker Media.

Offline M_Sprague

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Re: democratic sit in
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2016, 11:17:17 pm »
I bet if people spent more time keeping themselves informed and participating in government through voting and showing up at local meetings it would be a lot more protective of our rights and good governance than buying assault rifles and fantasizing about fighting off the agents circling about their house when they have far more chance of blowing their own brains out with it or freaking out and going on a rampage.  It is much easier to sit and fume and shoot up a TV in a gravel pit in a drunken stupor than do something civically productive (and maybe boring) . Fetishizing the idea of "protecting your freedom" with an AR15 (something that you have about zilch chance of legitimately having to do) to the point that belligerent nutjobs are allowed to get hold of them and commit massacres is ridiculous. Isn't it better to work on maintaining civilization rather than shooting it up after letting it go to shit with everybody alienated from each other?

As far as the sit in goes, Ryan should let them vote on something that that many people feel is important. Don't like it, then vote no. Think of all the time wasted voting on frivolous crap.
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Offline M_Sprague

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Re: democratic sit in
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2016, 11:44:21 pm »
Let me preface with the fact that I am not a member of either party and cannot actually even vote in the US...

That being said, the sit-in that is going on seems really bizarre... The bill that the democrats are protesting to get passed is bizarre.
It wants to ban all folks on the no fly list from being able to buy guns. Sounds good, but isn't the no fly list made up of some 700,000 people? most non-white? seems to target specific people groups?

Sounds like a pretty racist bill to me. Am i missing something?

They are protesting that the Republicans won't even allow a bill to come up for a vote when it is clear that many want it.

The no fly list is flawed, but I see no evidence that it is racist. If 2000 green skinned followers of a West Virginian Christian sect show intent to blow up airplanes, is it racist  to put those individuals on a no fly list? If white Ted Kennedy was on the list, how is it racist? What race do you think is being excluded?

Your logic seems flawed to me. If most or even all of a group (the no fly list) have a shared attribute, it doesn't follow that that attribute is the grouping determinative
"Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is not a path and leave a trail."
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The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. – John Kenneth Galbrait

Offline neiceclimber

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Re: democratic sit in
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2016, 08:29:08 am »
I think it would be better to just have an outright ban on assault weapons and high capacity magazines.

Short of this, a law requiring people that wish to purchase one of these things needs to get approval from the local police force, pass a test,  always carry an assault weapon permit, and you must have a special gun safe that is pre approved.

Offline kenreville

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Re: democratic sit in
« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2016, 09:14:53 am »
47,000 people on it in 2013 but hey what's the difference, right? ;)

And there's the problem without due process. Is it 47,000 or 700,000? No one really knows.....

Offline strandman

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Re: democratic sit in
« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2016, 12:39:20 pm »
I think it would be better to just have an outright ban on assault weapons and high capacity magazines.

Short of this, a law requiring people that wish to purchase one of these things needs to get approval from the local police force, pass a test,  always carry an assault weapon permit, and you must have a special gun safe that is pre approved.

In CO you need a federal background check to buy auto....it's a bit hard to get ...NO criminal background, warrants, liens etc..allows buyer to also get up to 1,ooo rounds at a time.

Offline z.st.jules

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Re: democratic sit in
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2016, 12:41:01 pm »
Let me preface with the fact that I am not a member of either party and cannot actually even vote in the US...

That being said, the sit-in that is going on seems really bizarre... The bill that the democrats are protesting to get passed is bizarre.
It wants to ban all folks on the no fly list from being able to buy guns. Sounds good, but isn't the no fly list made up of some 700,000 people? most non-white? seems to target specific people groups?

Sounds like a pretty racist bill to me. Am i missing something?

They are protesting that the Republicans won't even allow a bill to come up for a vote when it is clear that many want it.

The no fly list is flawed, but I see no evidence that it is racist. If 2000 green skinned followers of a West Virginian Christian sect show intent to blow up airplanes, is it racist  to put those individuals on a no fly list? If white Ted Kennedy was on the list, how is it racist? What race do you think is being excluded?

Your logic seems flawed to me. If most or even all of a group (the no fly list) have a shared attribute, it doesn't follow that that attribute is the grouping determinative

I see what you're saying. The logic that the thought that it seems pretty racist is based on the fact that folks are added to the list that have no actual terrorist affiliation which leaves us to presume that they are added because of ethnicity and or phenotype. Main concern is, how can we even know what the actual grouping determinative is if there is no due process. I understand that the democrats are looking for more than just the bill having to due with the no fly list. Just that bill specifically just seems strange to me.

Offline JBro

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Re: democratic sit in
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2016, 12:48:14 pm »
47,000 people on it in 2013 but hey what's the difference, right? ;)

And there's the problem without due process. Is it 47,000 or 700,000? No one really knows.....

+1

No fly list if bullshit.
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Offline Admin Al

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Re: democratic sit in
« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2016, 08:32:26 am »
As far as the sit in goes, Ryan should let them vote on something that that many people feel is important. Don't like it, then vote no. Think of all the time wasted voting on frivolous crap.

this is the point here... the Democrats are protesting to get a vote. you know, do the job you were actually elected to do. hey, you don't like it, vote against it. the Repugs don't want to be seen as voting against something. not that they have actually voted FOR anything over the past 8 years!
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Offline eyebolter

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Re: democratic sit in
« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2016, 07:38:13 pm »
Don't worry Al, when it is something that the multinational corporations want, like the Pacific Trade Deal, the republicrats and demicans will all hold hands and vote "Yes."

They only fight about stuff that the multinationals don't care about. 

As Jesse Ventura said: "National politics is like TV wrestling- it is fake."